Did the 'Addams Family Values' surpass the original movie in terms of performance and critic appreciation? Don't miss out as we dissect every aspect of the 1993 sequel! We'll discuss the common pitfalls of sequels and how Addams Family Values managed to avoid them, and compare the Addams Family sequel with other family features of the 90s.
Don't you wish the Addams Family franchise had a third instalment? We'll talk about the untapped potential of that missing third movie, and how Raul Julia's untimely passing in 1993 thwarted the possibility. We'll also envisage how the story might have unfolded and speculate on how the franchise would have adapted to the bubblegum pop world of the late 90s. Join us on this captivating venture into the realm of sequels and (possible) trilogies.
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Check out or other content/socials here.
Linktree
Hosts:
Cory Williams (@thelionfire)
Nick Growall (@nickgrowall)
Co-Hosts (Season 5):
Aly Dale (@alydale55)
Ash Hurry (@filmexplorationah)
Cass Elliott (@take5cass)
Voice of the Time Machine:
Kristi Rothrock (@letzshake)
Editing by:
Nick Growall
Featured Music:
"Quantum Recast Theme" - Cory Williams
"Charmer" - Coat
"Revival" - Daniele Musto
"Pukka" - Bellodrone
"Kings and Queens" - Wicked Cinema
"Kiss the Cat" - Al Town
"Birdcage" - Al Town
"Passenger" - Abloom
*Music and licenses through Soundstripe
Did the 'Addams Family Values' surpass the original movie in terms of performance and critic appreciation? Don't miss out as we dissect every aspect of the 1993 sequel! We'll discuss the common pitfalls of sequels and how Addams Family Values managed to avoid them, and compare the Addams Family sequel with other family features of the 90s.
Don't you wish the Addams Family franchise had a third instalment? We'll talk about the untapped potential of that missing third movie, and how Raul Julia's untimely passing in 1993 thwarted the possibility. We'll also envisage how the story might have unfolded and speculate on how the franchise would have adapted to the bubblegum pop world of the late 90s. Join us on this captivating venture into the realm of sequels and (possible) trilogies.
Thanks for listening; If you feel like supporting us, this is where you do that!
BuyMeACoffee
Check out or other content/socials here.
Linktree
Hosts:
Cory Williams (@thelionfire)
Nick Growall (@nickgrowall)
Co-Hosts (Season 5):
Aly Dale (@alydale55)
Ash Hurry (@filmexplorationah)
Cass Elliott (@take5cass)
Voice of the Time Machine:
Kristi Rothrock (@letzshake)
Editing by:
Nick Growall
Featured Music:
"Quantum Recast Theme" - Cory Williams
"Charmer" - Coat
"Revival" - Daniele Musto
"Pukka" - Bellodrone
"Kings and Queens" - Wicked Cinema
"Kiss the Cat" - Al Town
"Birdcage" - Al Town
"Passenger" - Abloom
*Music and licenses through Soundstripe
The gods of my tribe have spoken. They have said do not trust the pilgrims, especially Sarah Miller, and for all these reasons, I have decided to seek out you and burn your village to the ground. Welcome to another episode of Quantum Recast, and this is going to be an episode of In Defense of the Sequel. Yeah, we are rounding out the Halloween season and we're going to talk about the sequel to the movie of our last episode.
Speaker 2:That's right Adam's Family Values. It's a package deal really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's a companion episode.
Speaker 2:You listen to one and then, if you liked it, you listen to some more.
Speaker 1:And if you've listened to our previous In Defense of the Sequel episode, you know that what we're really here to do is just tell you that this sequel is better than the original, and I'm going to throw a question mark on this one because, okay, okay, I think they're just equally good, interesting, okay. Equally good Again.
Speaker 2:most sequels just get crapped on, which is why we have In Defense of the Sequel, because we just want to just say some sequels are good, but it really lives off the idea that you personally believe most sequels are better than the original.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I don't understand why people just automatically hate sequels. I think they're all incredible.
Speaker 2:I think you love the idea of the act two of worlds. I do you don't like world building, you just like the toys in the toy box.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:You like your Grand Theft Auto's.
Speaker 1:Any idea how long it takes those assholes to get out of Rivendell, Like it's like, oh my gosh, there's a ring.
Speaker 2:We need to destroy it, the book versions. Do we all have to go? The book versions, apparently much worse.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is, it's slow I've read those books. It takes much longer. They hang out in Rivendell for months in that book.
Speaker 2:Okay, we're not talking about that one today. That's a later episode. Today it's the Addams family.
Speaker 1:All right, all right. Yes, we're talking about Addams family values 1993,. Nick, are there any good critic stats for Addams family values from 1993?
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm going to give you a side-by-side here of the original the Addams family and the sequel, addams family values. So the original 1991 Addams family movie, the Rotten Tomatoes score was 67 for critics, 66 for audience. Mehta was harsh as usual with 47, letterbox score 3.7, and it lived off a budget of 30 million and made 191 million. Yeah, it did so. Addams family values came out two years later, in 93. Pretty quick turn around but typical for Hollywood Rotten Tomatoes 75, critic 63, audience Mehta was nicer 61, letterbox still 3.7. Okay, it had a budget of 47 million and it only got a box office of 111. So still successful, still made back its money, but you never know with marketing and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:But it didn't make more than the first one and maybe that's why we never saw a third Addams family, on top of the fact that Raul Julia passed on this.
Speaker 1:This was actually the last movie that came out of his where he was alive.
Speaker 2:Yes, Street Fighter came out after he died. That's his last film, I believe.
Speaker 1:I think that's right and so yeah, but like he was alive for this one to come out but it was the last one, sadly, and so, yeah, yeah, I just think that Addams family values is, and you said there that the critics seemed to like this one actually a little bit more.
Speaker 2:They did a little more yeah.
Speaker 1:And in the audience maybe a little bit less, whereas I'm just like I'm of the opinion that they're just both great and, honestly, they just go together. But speaking of critics, I want to talk about Roger Ebert's review of this movie.
Speaker 2:Because the first time, the first one, as we learned last in our last episode, he was not too fond of it.
Speaker 1:Yes, when we recast it Addams family, the 1991 original in 1981, we read his review and it wasn't kind. He just kind of thought it was one note and just kind of stupid. He thought it resembled the comic strip too much and I was like okay.
Speaker 2:It was too close to the source material.
Speaker 1:Sorry that someone tried. It's like you, would have been mad if they put Gomez in a hot pink suit with shoulder pads.
Speaker 2:And it's just, it's wrong. And driving a red Ferrari?
Speaker 1:No, it's the 90s now, it's works, yeah, but we're doing a real Miami Vice thing, a real Scarface thing here.
Speaker 2:And these are dead, Corey.
Speaker 1:And so, but like I don't know it's, it's dumb, but he actually wrote a review for this one in which he gave it three out of four. Okay, so the two he gave it an extra star Got it. And it was a very delightful review. And in the review he actually kind of confesses that he thinks he was too hard on the original.
Speaker 1:Really, he was like he's like he's like this one was, he's like he still says like the Addams family is very one joke. It's a macabre family trying to live in a normal world.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, but he's like, but the he's like. I really got the jokes this time and like they really hit. I thought they were hilarious and he's like, and he's just like. It made me appreciate the first one more. He's like he literally said like I might have been in a bad mood that day. He said something weird, like maybe I was in a really good mood when I watched Addams Family Value because I was going to watch Macaulay Culkin's Nutcracker right after.
Speaker 2:And so maybe I was just in a good mood. That's not a good movie. No, that's just a stage production, it's a stage production and Culkin's barely in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so like yeah, it's like it's a stage production and Culkin's barely in it. Yeah, you know, and so like I mean it's fine, it's music, it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I don't know I've yet to see.
Speaker 1:If you can't afford to go see the Nutcracker actually on the stage.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know I've yet to see a great Nutcracker on film. Disney tried, but they did their whole like weird legacy thing to it. I've yet to see one. I tried that was one of my goals last last Christmas was trying to find a good Nutcracker movie.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know that this is our last Halloween episode, but hot take. I don't think I've ever seen a good production of the Nutcracker, ever on stage or in. I don't think it's a great story.
Speaker 2:Well, you've been to one like in an actual like, big like, it's just it's music. It's to. How do you say his name? Tchaikovsky?
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 2:correct Tchaikovsky and ballet so like you have to have some really impressive ballet. It's a pretty pretty slapping orchestra going on.
Speaker 1:I mean the Dallas Symphony does it every year and every year I say I'm going to go, but then every year I'm like it's the Nutcracker. It's like once the Rat Kings off the screen in the first act, I'm kind of done Like our villains dead right away You've done.
Speaker 2:He went too quickly.
Speaker 1:It's like if in game they killed Thanos and that and then the rest of the movie is just the them trying to figure it out without Thanos and singing and dancing.
Speaker 2:And that's just that. Could have worked in the 50s.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I don't. I was in the Nutcracker even in sixth grade I was the. Rat King and like again, I auditioned for that role. That's all brand for you. I was done after the first song. I didn't have to do anything after that.
Speaker 2:It's like when I was the big bad wolf and into the woods, you're dead. And I wasn't double cast like they normally do with the Prince, yeah. So then I just sat backstage in my wolf outfit for two hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think I got to go home.
Speaker 2:That's nice.
Speaker 1:After like my parents, so I like it's. When I found my parents, I was like I'm done, like I'm dead.
Speaker 2:We can go, just text them. It's yeah, we can go now, so I'm in the back.
Speaker 1:But like I and that's and I think that, like Ebert's review of this movie, though, is just kind of how I really feel about I think that the sequel just enhances the first one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I like the first one. Yeah, quite a bit. Ok, I really do, and I think it's. I think I maybe like, would if. If I was going to set down and watch one only time, to watch one, I would probably put the first one in before I put the second one in. But I think the second one only makes the first one a little bit better. I think it just enhances it.
Speaker 2:So I obviously having to do these two episodes, watch both of them, generally close to each other this time, and I didn't grow up with them. I was again my sheltered upbringing, I was aware of them, saw the toys, all the TV shows and stuff. So I had this the second hand nostalgia for them. But watching them, yeah, this time around especially, I was like the jokes are funny, they're really hitting. This time I think Ebert's problem was he watched it and wasn't paying enough attention. And then the second one came out and like you get the adult jokes, which aren't that. It's not that they're adults, just that they're. They're dry and they're very like, like if you do, if you they're quick and you don't catch them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you almost just wonder if like OK, so Adam from the Homes Out 1991, which is around the same year as Nirvana, right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Or Never Mind right, and then album 91. Can our producer look that up for us?
Speaker 2:Let's see if it was released in 91.
Speaker 1:In 91. So here's my thing, though Like so, when Adam Sully comes out, nirvana's album comes out. Nirvana's album hasn't done the damage yet.
Speaker 2:It didn't kill the 80s yet.
Speaker 1:So I'm wondering if it's just Adam's family one was a little ahead of its time. Potentially In terms of like. It's still like this 80s mindset until Nirvana comes out and essentially starts the actual 90s. Yeah, and grunge happens. And then in 93 comes out the, the dark, black, dry humor hits more in a 93 world, because I would say the Batman movie started it.
Speaker 2:Nirvana ended the end of the 80s. Nirvana definitely put the stake in the heart. And then you've got Batman Returns in 92. That's like this is what the 90s is really yeah.
Speaker 1:And so that's what I'm wondering if it's just like a 93. The 90s were a kickstarted.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like it's just everything's a little darker now and you can kind of laugh at it or enjoy it and it's like all right, so I don't feel so bad about you. Know again, like I love the Morticia at the camp, like saying like a Wednesday's at that age where she's only got one thing on her brain and then the monk goes down and says boys, and she just I mean straight, I mean completely straight Homicide.
Speaker 2:And it's like that's so good.
Speaker 1:And it's just like and you laugh and it's hilarious and I just think maybe that that joke worked better in 93 than it did in 91. Yeah, I don't know, like that's, that's just one of my theories is that Ebert was just more with the times in 93.
Speaker 2:So here's, here's. Here's my hot take, corey, for today. I guess I'm going to play your. I guess I'm going to play your role today. I'm going to play your role. While I agree that I think that the quality of both movies is high, I think the second one's the best one, definitively.
Speaker 1:OK, I was going to ask you which one you like a little bit more.
Speaker 2:I think I like the second one a bit more and it's it's kind of like what you were you had alluded to. It's like it does everything the first one does, but bigger and better and so and that's a dangerous road to go down for sequence. Yeah, but I think that it's like they understood. Ok, we've. The first one is about Fester's. We were highlighting Christopher Lloyd. He's hot off of Back to the Future who frame Roger Rabbit? Of course he's going to be the star. Yeah, they realized. Oh, Christina. Richie is Wednesday. Adams is our meal ticket.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so the second one was like we've got a whole subplot for her and then Fester's still. He's still like the main story, a him and Gomez dealing with another situation. But I think they understood like these are highlighted characters and I think if you'd progressed that she would have overtaken the series on her own, by by itself.
Speaker 1:Do you think that it was a missed opportunity that they didn't just make a Wednesday movie like in 96 or something?
Speaker 2:I would say so, yeah, because.
Speaker 1:Christina Richie, I'll say this she is way better in the second one.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, she grew into it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And she's a lot younger. And then in this one she's 13. Yeah, and so like, and I'm not sure what age Wednesday supposed to be, but she's 13 and when she's in 93. And she's just nailing it. Everything Christina Richie does, this movie is gold.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first one. You can tell she's she's a child actor and you can tell it's kind of being. She's being coached through a lot of stuff like keep your eyes wide, real menacing, but like she figured it out between here and there and I think, yeah, she's definitely. You see the star being born, basically. And yeah, I think a Wednesday movie could have lived on its own, but I think at the time too, you just lost Raoul Julia, I don't. I think the band's like hey, it's over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, but tell me.
Speaker 1:So I mean like, just to like continue on what you were saying there it's like I think that's the brilliance of Adam Stemley values Again, I think it's just kind of like depends on the day which one, I would say, is better than the other.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But like it makes all the mistakes, sequels usually make OK Like when they're bad, yeah. Which is we introduce this non canonical new character Like it doesn't? This character is not part of the Charles Adams.
Speaker 2:Debbie Jolinsky Well, not even that. The baby, oh we introduce an entire new family member. That's true. The Adam Stemley? That's true. Yeah, I completely forgot that there was a baby in this movie.
Speaker 1:Someone can correct me, but to my knowledge doesn't appear in the 60s show. Doesn't appear in the comics, it's just they. This is usually something a TV show does when they're out of ideas, yeah.
Speaker 2:Puber apparently was a name that was pitched to the creator of like hey, you should give these atoms like Ashburn if they didn't have names in the comic. So they were like audience. People were like saying, hey, what if you named him Pugsley, what if you named him Puber?
Speaker 1:So this was kind of a wink and nod to that a little bit, but like that's what I'm saying, though it's like that's amazing to me that, like a lot of TV shows, we know when they introduce a new character, like late in the season, it means they're running out of ideas or like they're trying to like grasp its straws. It's usually a death sentence. They also spend a lot of time outside of the Adams family home, which the entire original series that homes a character yeah, it's like it's the whole Adams family has the aesthetic. It looks the same in every movie. It's iconic.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, in every TV show and they spend a majority of the movie outside of it. You know they make all the mistakes that normally a sequel that's bad makes, and they do it so well.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:That the movie doesn't suffer from it.
Speaker 2:And I think it's also we talk about franchises and even trilogies, like the first movie, like we're establishing worldbuilding, establishing Second movie, now that we get to play with the characters and we get to see the world outside of like their normal world. If you're talking a three act structure, I mean that that fits perfectly. It's like, yeah, we've established their home where they live, all their characters, and now here's how they interact with the world around them. Yes, to an extent, and I think that's what was it was just OK, let's take these two children that we know are in this Macabre family and let's just throw them in summer summer camp yeah which which reads somewhat of you're like well, that's a very cliche thing to do, but that's because we grew up in the 90s and spent 30 years and we've seen a hundred camp movies like that.
Speaker 2:But they it's just different enough, because normally those are the kids, those are the main characters, but they're just like the nerdy kid or like it's like the boy that she, the boyfriend she makes, like he's usually the main character. You've got these two characters that can't die really yeah, no.
Speaker 2:And they flip everything on the bullies basically. And I think it's it's that on top. Of you know, the first movie had the whole storyline with Fester and his mom, quote unquote. And while that was like a fun character Abigail Craven, played by Elizabeth Wilson it wasn't as visually iconic as Joe Q Saxe character.
Speaker 1:Joe Q Saxe kills in this movie.
Speaker 2:She, she knocks it out of the park. Like I'm a little worried about how attracted I am to her in this movie. She's a walking red flag, but I'm sitting there going, oh no.
Speaker 1:But I just know. So he's going to talk about in therapy this, yeah, probably a little bit, but I thought it was also interesting.
Speaker 2:She, she does such a good enough job that like part of my brain also sat there and went. There's an alternate ending where she just becomes part of the family because she's just as crazy as they are, like when she's ready to like electrocute them and torture them at the end and she's giving her whole, basically, backstory. They're all like they get it, like we get it. Yeah, we deserve to die.
Speaker 1:And I think it's an interesting thing. I think it's it's wild that like this movie, like took this family, that like all the jokes are that they're into murder, they've probably committed murder. You know, like one of the first things that Joe Q Saxe says about Fester's lady killer in Gomez says acquitted, you know. And so I'm like in all this stuff, but then you present a villain that actually shows that they're wholesome somehow and that she's not. You know, and like it somehow works. It like works. In this contradiction of why, am I rooting for them?
Speaker 1:Because they are, I guess, by?
Speaker 2:by definition they're bad people.
Speaker 1:But like we've been presented with, like this real world character. But you're kind of right, there's a world where she just would have shown up at the end.
Speaker 2:And she doesn't do the breakfast club thing. We don't. We don't make her over, she's just. She's just polished, she's still in the white outfits and stuff. She just lives with the family in a way.
Speaker 1:You know, in a weird way I kind of like I like that ending more than we're like. They do show a bald woman at the end, right, and yeah, attracted to her yeah like. What? If like, why didn't Joan suit just lose all her hair and like pigmentation in, like the accident? Right Like at the end, what like the electric, like being electric, you know stuff. And then like she just becomes what Fester really wanted in a woman.
Speaker 2:That's, I think that's the only glaring thing, sitting critically at it 30 years later.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is that you could have introduced a character like that throughout the movie of like oh she fits Fester way better, like he should have dated her, but like he'd already been swept up by Debbie Jalinsky and so by the end maybe she helped save them or something. Maybe that's too cliche, but it's also.
Speaker 1:I prefer Joe Q Sack just losing all her hair right and then becoming an Adams Right.
Speaker 2:She's just. She's the second movie's answer to the, the lawyer's wife. Yeah, margaret Alford, played by Dana Ivy, where she marries cousin it, and she's great and delightful in that movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like you, just we just keep adding to the family. We already did it.
Speaker 1:We had a pubert like no, and I love that there's a movie in which the beginning is the older siblings literally attempting murder right on their, on their infant, like sibling.
Speaker 2:They cover a lot of ground in those first 20 minutes of this movie. It's like babies born children already want to kill it. We've addressed it and they're trying to kill it.
Speaker 1:They're trying to try to murder it, Though there's always the unanswered question of are the Adams families like immortal, like are they even human? Yeah, because it just seems like they can not die. Which?
Speaker 2:also plays so brilliantly into, into Jones character, because she's trying to kill Fester, because that's her whole thing. I kill my husband, I get all his money and you're like, oh, you picked the absolute worst person to try to marry and kill and take their money because he can't die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So it's a lot of fun and so. But like it is one of those questions where we kind of cover this in the first one, where I was going to say I lost my train of thought. We cover this in the first one where we bring up the third one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We bring up Adam's Family Reunion, which is this completely recast it yeah. Straight to DVD or straight to video. I guess back then.
Speaker 2:Movie and it's got Tim Curry.
Speaker 1:I think the only returning actor is Lurch. Okay, and other than that I think everyone else is just recast and it's not very good and it's very low budget, and so it makes you wonder If Raoul Julia had not succumbed to his illness and kept on living, if this would have been a franchise.
Speaker 2:I think it had definitely had the potential to. I think, looking at the numbers, obviously it dipped a bit box office wise but I think there was still enough.
Speaker 1:They still make money.
Speaker 2:The consistency was there, even the the critics stats grew with with the film. So I think, yeah, there's definitely a 95 version of a third movie where Raoul Julia is alive. The next one, it's very, I would say it's very.
Speaker 1:Wednesday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where she's in high school or something or middle school, whatever her appropriate age would be at that time, because that's what I was saying was like she grew into that role and I think it's just a, it's a passing of the torch to her as the lead in that movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it is a shame that we never we got a third. It's kind of like the Home Alone you got the first two, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And then it's one of those Exactly like Home Alone.
Speaker 2:And then the third, they're all DVD streaming, whatever's we don't. We don't acknowledge them because we just the quality drop. Because the first two movies were so good in terms of like we know what we are, we keep the consistency aesthetically, the cast is still there, like we know what we're doing, and that's that's what both Adam Stanley and Things Like Home Alone they made the first two movies and they just nailed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, honestly I don't know. Yeah, and it's just like yeah and I agree. And I've never seen Adam Stanley reunion, but I imagine it's very similar.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just three, three, and I think it.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm saying like I guarantee that movie is a lot more cartoonish and a lot more ridiculous and over the top.
Speaker 2:It's not because it's new kid. Yeah, I don't. It's the same McAllister's, but like they've, I don't know, it's might be the younger kid or something, I think he's like?
Speaker 1:I think he's like a cousin of Kevin or something like that.
Speaker 2:And then. But it's not the wet bandits, it's a whole new slew of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like French Stewart is one of them. It's like it's way over the top, it's very yeah, it leans way too into looty tunes. Yes, I mean, they're literally trying to like, still like they're terrorists trying to steal like chips for a missile system.
Speaker 2:Something.
Speaker 1:Oh, let's, let's slow down. What happened to just robbing a place?
Speaker 2:What are they just being? Some you know just some blue collar criminals guys Come on.
Speaker 1:Oh no, there's missile. There's missile guidance chips in your race car. They're like we got to up the sticks, it's like we went to New York city.
Speaker 2:What else could we possibly do?
Speaker 1:And so yeah, if this kid doesn't succeed, the world is over.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So yeah, it's dumb, but no, I think I think the Adams family, like it, knew what it was, it knew it worked, it ran with it into the second one and I think that would have been a continuation of of that in a potential third movie with this original grouping. I think it just it's a, it's a, it's a big. What if had relatively not passed away at the time?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, it's weird. It seems like franchise, it's that word seems like a very modern word.
Speaker 2:It's a dirty word.
Speaker 1:I mean, it just seems like franchise didn't come into play almost until, like we hit the superhero like the only ones that saying it?
Speaker 2:Well, it's the only ones at that time. You're looking at horror franchises, or Batman and Bond.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I'm saying, Like I don't, but I don't remember like hearing the word franchise that much when I was a kid about Batman or Bond.
Speaker 1:It just seems like a word we invented when we sort of make in a lot of superhero movies and so like. But my thing is that in, in my opinion, outside of Bond, horror movies were the ones that embraced franchise first, and by that I meant like, yeah, you had, you had your Star Wars trilogy, but it took three movies as a complete story wrapped in three movies, and it took six years to make, whereas Nightmare on Elm Street would put out six movies in six years. You know, they were like we're going to keep making them Like it in. Horror movies were the only movies back then that says like part six, part seven. You know, aside from, I think, adult films, they were it. I'm saying like you're on part 11 of a story.
Speaker 2:Listen, it gets really good at Backdoor Sluts nine.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying and so like, but like that's what I'm saying, like it's, it's wild that that was a thing and that's, and honestly, for the same reason, like porn and horror movies were cheap and made a lot of money back in the 70s 80s, it costs nothing to make them but they like made tons of money from two very different audiences obviously.
Speaker 1:But like, but like. That's what. That's why those those two genres back then we could be like, oh you're on like Dirk Diggler eight and like Nightmare on Street seven, you know, and stuff like that and so like, and that's because Adam's family was horror adjacent, at least aesthetically it does make me wonder if like someone would have, like if Roush really kept living, if they were like dude, let's just keep making these Like, let's just keep going.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it also lives in that world of a fam, you know it's. It rides in line between horror and a family feature. Obviously, like I think it would have been treated the same, as typical, like franchises, where we're going to take more time with it, obviously two or two to three years, especially in that time of filmmaking, but I think it would have leaned more into that. But there is the potential that they could have kept going. I just wonder, because the thing about the 90s too is it's like you said it, it everybody was sick of the 80s and it just died. The second Nevermind hit the ground running. But by the time Nirvana passes away and Biggie and Tupac pass away, we go from dark and we shift into that late 90s, millennia metallic bubblegum pop world. So which would have been fun to see the Adam assembly adjust to.
Speaker 2:You could see. You could see a way that would be even more perfect because it's a Wednesday, who's in black, dealing with all these people that are into Britney Spears and the Spice Girls and Backstreet Boys and everything's bright and colorful. So that could have been a fun, like cultural shock for her even, and getting to see her more dark, gothic, grunge representation, I guess you could say, of the early 90s, like really dealing with all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, so here's another thing. I'm glad you said the word family feature, because I think this might be another thing that makes Adam's family values really special maybe is that, and we just kind of. We just kind of tracked on this with the Home Alone thing. But Home Alone wasn't the only one. The 90s had almost a fear of sequels, especially with family features.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know if, but like Richie, rich has a sequel. It's not Macaulay Culkin, it's this straight to video garbage trash thing, and then Casper has multiple sequels. They have nothing to do with Christina Richie. They're all, like you know, lower budget straight to you, know you know whose fault it is. It's.
Speaker 2:Disney's fault.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we had the 90s exist to 10 years earlier, before the invention of DVD or even just home video had grown to its blockbuster proportions. Because once Disney figured out oh I can make a sequel to the Lion King and Aladdin, oh wait, I can make a sequel to all of these other movies and they don't have to be good, because they're just going to buy them. I think that's the mentality that family features kind of started to get in that decade, because it was like well, we don't have to hire Macaulay Culkin, we don't have to hire the main cast of the Atoms Family, we can just make a cheaper sequel and release it on DVD and it'll still make tons of money.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, like I mean, maybe they just go against, like old man Scorsese, All right, right now I'm being the media, like pissing him on and about the death of cinema, like he always does every time he makes a good movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean yeah, is that it, wolf of Wall Street? But this killer of the flower moons is great.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And I really do enjoy this movie and I actually think for once. I'm like okay, you utilized all three and a half hours well, in my opinion. And so like a job Scorsese. But like you know he is, he's like oh, cinema is going to die, streaming will kill it. No one's making like real movies anymore, blah, blah, blah. And and it's like it's kind of interesting because you're kind of talking about like Disney, I think, looked at the death of theaters. Maybe in the 90s they said home video is going to kill theaters.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's steer into that. We'll make Return of Jafar the best Disney sequel of all in Lion King.
Speaker 2:Two are the two it in Lion King two and King of Thieves all absolute quality. I can't say the same for any of the other.
Speaker 1:It's returned to far better than Aladdin.
Speaker 2:I don't think so personally, but that's another another defense for another day. Maybe I'm just like I'm not sitting here, thinking like maybe I need to rewatch Return of Jafar because I think I just out, I'm down, I'm down to talk some Aladdin here I'm going to ask me twice.
Speaker 1:I just remember wearing the Return of Jafar DVD out, yes, or like the VHS album, so I might have I need to rewatch this, ok, but like, but that's what you like. That's a good point, though, and again, I think that's why, adam, certainly values might be like Uber. Special is that it was a studio that said, no, let's do this right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like let's recast these people, let's pay them some more and let's make an actual. It almost makes you wonder if they saw franchise potential.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know again, I don't know how public Raul Julia was with his illness. I don't either, actually, and so they might have been thinking like, hey, maybe we can get multiple films out of this, whereas because the rest again, you're right, disney and a lot of studios are saying, like theaters are going to die off, let's just make straight to video content and we can make, make it less, and people would just still rent it, you know, or buy it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so I mean, I mean again, I think Disney was probably doing really well with its animated stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, think about also, like the only family trilogy that I can think of off the top of my head from the 90s is the Ninja Turtles trilogy, but that was very. It was 90, 91, 93. So before Blockbuster just boomed, before people start make, it was before people start making like crappy sequels on DVD and VHS. So I think that's a thing. I think that it was early enough that they were like yeah, let's make another. That makes sense, make a third one, yeah.
Speaker 1:No. So I think that is interesting that, like Adam, samly did get a big budget sequel. I think that was rare, like I mean, you look at Home Alone 2 and it was the only other one I can think of off my head.
Speaker 2:They got like a real money put Like those three, those three franchises, really only the only ones that in the and they all came in that early 90s spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, either you were going to get like a really crappy straight to video sequel and they were just like, well, we'll make all the money off people renting it initially and some buy it Even though it's live action.
Speaker 2:I think they were still. There's still that stigma of family. Family entertainment equals kids movies, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I mean, yeah, I'm sure like they were making money hand over fist on rentals more than anything, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it was a second. It was a second box office release. Yeah, damon talked about that. He's like you know, back in the day you could make a goodwill hunting and even if he didn't make money in the box office, there was a second life and you would get money back when people would hear about it.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's what the cult classic was like it bombed in the theater and then people like rented the shit out of it yeah. And so like. So that is an interesting idea and it does. I think it adds to again the credibility of, like Adam Samly values being a very special movie and it being really well done, and me thinking that they probably thought about a third one until you know, events prevented it but like, so that's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, I also just missed that.
Speaker 1:I do miss that era, though, where also there was also the potential that your movie. Just there was never any franchise or potential Right.
Speaker 2:It wrote a line of like either.
Speaker 1:We just needed one, that's it Didn't need to tell any more story in that town.
Speaker 2:It was all inclusive. We completed the Sandlot, did it for a while and then they made a DVD sequel.
Speaker 1:Moranis's little giants beat Edo Neal's Cowboys and they made one team. All the kids got to play. Shouldn't have been that hard, shouldn't have been.
Speaker 2:It's just one league, no, and that town was fine after that. Listen, you don't get little league politics, corey, trust me.
Speaker 1:I lift it. And so I'm just saying like I miss that. There's a lot of those movies that just said we're one, we're done. This was the story, let's move on yeah.
Speaker 2:But again it's like you said, like that was the. It was the time of changing and it was the time when people were starting to learn about the profitability of franchises. It's existed. It existed well before the horror of the 80s and stuff. But like this was when they really latched onto it and went wait, we got something here. We wait, we don't have to just make three Star Wars movies. We can make a whole other trilogy, we can make TV shows, we can make cartoons of this thing we can, you know like Freddy Krueger was the leading candidate of that.
Speaker 2:We talked about it in our earlier thing. He was everywhere, like the 80s and then the 90s, like birthed the idea of the franchise being this marketable, franchisable, sellable thing outside of the movies. Because back then it was like we've made a movie, it's all inclusive, it's all right here, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think that that's.
Speaker 2:That's just the reality of where we are now. It's it's about brand. It's about how can we sell this. You know how many social media followers do you have, and that will define if you get to be in the movie.
Speaker 1:So that my thing is this Adam Simley won, which I prefer, by a hair.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was so good that a studio said we could just scrap this, make a cheap version and, like, cash in on video rentals. But they said, no, let's see how. Let's see. We have faith in this to potentially do well in theaters and get us our rental money, you know, and so like, and I think the second one makes the first one better.
Speaker 2:So it's like this weird semiotic thing.
Speaker 1:What I compare this to is back to the future. Ok, now, I am a big proponent that back to the future too is the best back to the future movie.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I don't even, I won't even entertain in argument otherwise. Well, so so many episodes we can have this, this idea Back to the future, too, is phenomenal, but I still think that those movies work as a whole rather than an like individual movies. I've never sat down and watched one back to the future movie. If I get the itch to watch back to the future. Yeah it's going to be like an event. It's going to be like I need five hours.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like it's if you turn their perfect TV movies, adam's Family Back to Future. Because if you turn, if they have a marathon going and you just walked into that scene, you're like, well, I'm going to stay and wait for that scene to happen, I'm going to wait for the Bocana speech, I'm going to wait for this.
Speaker 1:You can theoretically watch them all as their own autonomous thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But they work best as this whole right. Like they're all telling a long story and I honestly think, like I think, even though the Star Wars trilogy is telling one story, they're they're still very digestible as one movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I will watch Empire Strikes Back all the time and rarely ever watch New Hope or Return of the Jedi. I just don't like that much need as much as there is for Empire Strikes Back Whereas back to the future. I think it's weirdly like I have to watch as a whole.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I kind of think the Atoms Family movies are that I feel like they have to be like you, just together.
Speaker 2:It's you kind of watch and you go. Well, I just just keep watching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just like I feel like they're very symbiotic and like it's almost like I. I honestly believe it was like it should have been a trilogy. It just sucks like curse you, curse you death.
Speaker 2:You took Raul Jolie from us.
Speaker 1:Where's thy sting? And so, like it is, it's like we potentially would have got like a perfect trilogy out of this. That's like of that caliber, that's like you just have to watch all three of these movies.
Speaker 2:You know, but sometimes sometimes it's better that maybe the third one isn't made, because there's often times how many trilogies have we seen where we were like so excited about the third one and how are they going to wrap this up? How is it all going to come together? And always and third movies are so hard to pull off, especially in a cinematic landscape, because movies by product, by by existence, are a gamble. So you make the first one and hope people like it, hope they like it enough to make the next one, hope that one's successful enough that you're like OK, they want one more. So they're generally a lot of times they make these without any intention. Of this overarching story, the only one and that's because it's a book series, it's originally just supposed to be one book is Lord of the Rings and it had a cohesive to it because oh, what are you saying?
Speaker 2:I'm saying it's hard to make a trilogy. Oh, that is, feels warranted and feels of the same quality.
Speaker 1:I was saying the third one was the best.
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm saying, I'm saying like they work together, like you need it to finish the story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, no for sure. And again, I think Lord of the Rings is a movie. It's the same thing. Is that back to the future thing and what? How I see the Adamson is like you can't just really watch one. Yeah it's like I'm on a journey now Like we're on a literal journey. Yeah and so, like, I think, like in my brain yeah, I honestly have been racking my brain to try to think of a third movie that's bad like the best a.
Speaker 2:Third, me, that's better than the rich. You're right. I mean you're proving a good point.
Speaker 1:Like it'd be hard for us to start a Side episode called in defense of the the trip. Like the third movie, the three cool. Yeah in defense of the third movie defense of the trilogy yeah third movie. It's usually yeah, it's hard. My only two answers that I can come up with in terms of the third movie is diehard 3 and Dark Knight Rises and one of those really you can't say it's a trilogy anymore. But you diehard. 4 and 5 don't exist.
Speaker 2:And then and then. Dark Knight Rises, while it's well, still on the quality range, yeah, nobody's, there's not a lot of people that would say that's my favorite.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's. I weirdly think Dark Knight Rises is the best movie. Okay, did Heath Ledger give the best performance out of every movie?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely 100% yeah, I just were, for whatever reason, think I prefer the best movie okay, um, by far.
Speaker 1:Yeah uh, they're not by far, but diehard 3 it just when John McLean's kids got involved there. It's not, it's not cannon, it's not, can it it's a legacy sequel.
Speaker 2:at that point it's dumb. Yeah, we're done with those. It's diehard 3, and I'm not saying that 3 is better than diehard, I'm saying diehard, 3 is just better than 2, but that, but the kid thing that bring the legacy sequel thing that makes up Good point. The reason that these two movies work so well together is because they're made in the same time and place. Had had they waited 10 years and said let's make a third one, it's it's recast, because your children what's it's?
Speaker 2:it's crap, it's recast, because the thing that makes it work so well is that early 90s aesthetic. It's why Batman 1 and 2 work so well together. That's why these two come together so well, because if you wait too long times, change the aesthetic, change the way Film movies are made and look. That's why. That's why there's these issues with these sequel movies. It's like when they come back and it's like, and you know, and people go, it just doesn't feel the same. It's like, yeah, well, yeah, cuz it's it's not made on film.
Speaker 2:It's not it's not, they're not using practical sets. Like the, they're trying to shoehorn in all these legacy characters and actors while trying to introduce you to these new characters you don't care about. You know? That's. That's why it is both it's a blessing and a curse that a third one Technically wasn't made, at least with this original cast as is, had it been made in 95, 96, sure, at any point past that, you've missed the opportunity.
Speaker 2:And that's what I think a lot of these franchises don't get is they're like let's make another one of these and you're like no, you don't get what made the original special.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I get, no, I agree, I mean there's a world where the, the character of thing, works so well. In that environment he doesn't now you kind of sit there, go, is it's alright, like it's. But it's down to also the performance too, which, yeah, he's a secret weapon of these movies as well. He's not talked about. We couldn't cast thing really in our in our previous episode, but it there's a need to speak about how well they did it in the previous two movies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't really know what, how we would have played it in, in, I think you would just said give me a comedian, a character, a physical actor or something.
Speaker 2:But but that's the thing with the thing, and just to highlight him for a moment, is that he's they do such a good job with his non-syllable Like there's no, there's no, there's no voice for the character, but it's all Practical comedy and stuff. He in the second one he's. He's got an office job for a bit. He's just, he's just cutting around giving everybody a mail and stuff, and they do a good job too. In the Wednesday show they were like okay, we know that this is a fun character and he weirdly plays this role of like best friend to Gomez, but he's also like the family dog To an extent. They ride that line perfectly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm trying to think like I didn't even like I didn't think think about that. We didn't bring up thing in the first one I did.
Speaker 2:I felt bad, maybe you did, maybe brought up and it's just like, well, we can't, I didn't bring it up. I did. I felt bad that we did bring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cuz that, that hand actor if that's what he is yeah, um does incredible. Yes, he really acts with just his hand and like I know what emotion that hand is going through.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know exactly what that hand is thinking.
Speaker 1:I know what that hand is saying and it's not sign language, it's just no he's emoting with his hand, I don't know. 1981. Played by Christopher Hart, apparently in the let me ask you this if I was casting in 1981 Adams family, if I wasn't directing and I wanted to cast the thing, yeah tell me if this is a break. I mean you both tried to break rules, you and ash, we tried to break rules.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I would try to break the rule that he's been drafted and he's in the NFL, but he's not. He's not acting yet, but OJ Simpson in 1981, because that's gonna age like so horrifically. Horrifically age when we find out that he's murdered and practically decapitated you two, humans like that, that's the hand. But then, like when you go back and watch 1981's Adams family, you're just like, oh my gosh, oh, these movies got darker.
Speaker 2:So more macabre more macabre.
Speaker 1:It somehow works to the aesthetic of the Adams family.
Speaker 2:But um, yeah, no so well, speaking of recasting characters, we didn't recast. I did have the thought because we've done this in a previous episode with a franchise, with back to the future, which we brought up where we there was, just because those movies it's like here's the same cast and we only added one extra character in the third movie. Yeah, so I was gonna ask you, if you were gonna recast, like a mid-80s Adams family values, who would you recast for?
Speaker 1:So we casted Adam's family in 81. So let's just say Adam's family values would have come out 83. Sure, in our universe and our time in our time travel universe? I Don't. Do you have an answer?
Speaker 2:Would you like to go first? Goldie Han is my answer.
Speaker 1:Goldie Han would be perfect for no other reason than what she did in what becomes her.
Speaker 2:It was, it's that and it's what becomes her character. But like times oh yeah, it's that, and it's also the overboard before character to for board. It's so good yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, have you ever seen what becomes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I watch this.
Speaker 1:I didn't even make you do it like, you just chose to watch death.
Speaker 2:I just openly watched it, yeah that is such an underrated movie.
Speaker 1:It's so good.
Speaker 2:It's. Bruce Willis, everyone's firing on all cylinders the mechus movie, if I'm correct, probably it's great.
Speaker 1:And so it was originally a toast from the crypt episode and then they just said, no, this, this story has legs, yeah that's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:So, um, but it's that character For sure.
Speaker 2:In even her first Wives Club character only hawns. Really good at playing like the vapid yeah, horrible both sides of Goldie Han in this, in this version, because she's playing the sweet nothing, but she's really the dark Sure for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, 83 like this. And this is I'm just pulling this out of my hat, okay, but I think she would. I think she'd do good. She's got chops. Okay, and it's a little against time. I'm going Sally feel that would been fun.
Speaker 2:Okay, I can see some fun.
Speaker 1:Sally feel can be really animated and really big. She's such a drama but like she can be really out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:She, I think. I don't know if we call her a character actor, but she can be for sure, for sure, and so and she's such a babe.
Speaker 2:That's like my biggest crush in the world, the Sally feel. You've brought her up multiple times gosh, she is gorgeous.
Speaker 1:All right, yeah, no, I that's, that's what I would do. Got you probably wouldn't be blonde. That's fair.
Speaker 2:That's what? Well, corey, I think we've covered everything we wanted to kind of talk about think so and I still. I think we've both still reached an understanding of how we feel with both movies and I think you, you still lean towards some favoritism towards the first one.
Speaker 1:I Just you know. Okay, Just just to say what it is. It's the house. I just like being in that house. Okay, yeah it's just like the house is an iconic character and once we leave it, a lot though I will say I, I will say this I think the summer camp scenes are the peak of both movies. They're really good the it's Christina, reaching the first one is the best part of like. I mean it's it's it rivals Raul Julia as Gomez Adams. Yeah, it's just like it's there. It's so perfect.
Speaker 2:I mean, like we talked about in the previous episode, all these characters are cast so well.
Speaker 1:It's almost perfect casting it may, it's just I. I don't know that I'll ever see an iteration of this, this family where I'm like you know it's as good as this yeah it's just everyone from literally the hand, the hand that doesn't tell you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the way they did thing or cousin it practical and and lurch and it's just all Perfect. Yes, you know, I mean I haven't watched enough of the 60s show to like really compare and contrast. But I it may be up there. Maybe it's the close second. I do like I like John Austin, so okay. But okay, all right. No, my only last question would be, nick, if they did, let's just say death isn't a dick and doesn't take Raul Julia from us. Love it in 93, 94.
Speaker 1:Yeah and what do you think the third movie potentially could have been like? If you just think you think they jumped the shark and it's like Adams family at the beach, or do you think they'd do something more practical and take a series?
Speaker 2:I think there's a temptation to do that for sure. I mean, if you look at like the Directors history. So Barry Sonfeld, he is a dude. He did men in blacknecks. That was what his other big thing. He did men in black and he did Wild Wild West. As a producer it looks like looking at his actual directing that he comes up with that he didn't do two of men in black but he did the first one. So I want to say, yeah, like I think he would take it seriously. But the Wild Wild West thing kind of scares me. He was the director of Wild Wild West so I think he might have a tendency to go a little too big, not like Wild Wild West.
Speaker 1:I think it's fun, I think it's a weirdly underrated movie.
Speaker 2:I need to rewatch it. It's. It's one of those movies that like you watch it as a kid. It's like Batman and Robin you watch as kid you lot. This is great. And then you became a teenager at a college kid and everybody hated it. It said it was stupid. But then it came back around because Batman is a palette of things. Yeah, I think we need. We need to make Batman fun again.
Speaker 1:I think it was Barry Sonfeld guy. He's very like Tim Burton esque. Yeah you know, and that he really captured. I was only, but then he had that whole steampunk thing going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. For years I thought Tim Burton did well. I thought he did. I thought Tim Burton did Adams family movies.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah yeah, yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, all right, okay, I okay. So I really think what we didn't get, what I think we got doses of, I think what the third one would have naturally have been what I think we would have gotten the subplot of Wednesday in high school. Yeah, and we probably would have got what we eventually got with Ortega.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that high school Wednesday, adams and going to prom.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we would have the dumb ass dance, but we would have gotten some great Christina Ricci teenage things and so, which would have been great. Yeah, and it would have been great if a Crum Holt's the guy that played the nerdy guy like Barry.
Speaker 2:I think it's very criminal.
Speaker 1:Um, it was, you know, famously Santa Claus, and he's.
Speaker 2:He's a timer and everything I mean he's just dude.
Speaker 1:He's been everything. He's one of the most underrated character actors. It's just sad because I think it's always just like we need a Jewish character.
Speaker 2:Let's call you. It's like, let's like it's always have to just be a part of his life. It's like we need a Jewish guy and like you're, like, you're, you're Jewish people bulk at that kind of thing. But like the actors know, they're like listen, I got a thing, I got a guarantee job. He may be answered the phone like, hey, you're just got right. David Crum Holt's is his name. David Crum Holt's phenomenal character actor.
Speaker 1:I love him and I would have liked to have seen him in high school, but I think the actual thing would have been like what the newest Animated one did, like the first one which essentially the suburbs. We would essentially done the, I think, edward Scissorhands thing. Okay like what if the suburbs move?
Speaker 2:on through into the house.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, it's very isolated because that's what we never got. Fully was the Adams family in Suburbia yes they just kind of allude to it here and there. It's more like normal people going to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cuz they're very separated cuz like until they get kicked out of the house in the first one. Yeah and until they go to summer camp in the second one. You don't. They don't intermingle with society.
Speaker 1:That I think that's what it is. Is the summer camp thing was so good? I think, they had made a third one. They said we need the whole family.
Speaker 2:Yes, a very like, because then?
Speaker 1:I mean, imagine if Adams family goes to Disney World. That's a movie right there, I'm in.
Speaker 2:Well, like the suburb thing, you get Morticia, more for Morticia to do, she's she's interacting with like the neighborhood wives, like doing different things of that nature Pugsley's probably got some feud with like the neighborhood kid or something, pubert probably in that case and then go met and like that, yeah, you get like the well, the welcome family thing they bring like their little, their little gift basket which is like terrifying and comparison.
Speaker 2:So I think there's yeah, there's a lot of fun with that kind of idea and I think that that definitely would play into like that same era of like the pleasant Vils and the Truman shows of the world, where there's commentary on like Suburbia and society.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's what we would have got, and I would have loved it. I'd be down, I'd watch that we got the street DVD thing. Yeah, I'm sad, but that's fine, that's fine, it's good. Rest in peace. Yeah, julia, we miss you.
Speaker 2:Okay, so final verdict Corey, which is better, or do you think it's just equal?
Speaker 1:I think it's equal. I think they're just equally good. I think this is an example where, like it's weird that we're doing maybe an episode of defense of sequel for a sequel that's actually by most critics considered better right, but I do. But again, it did perform a little less at the box office. But that's my thing. I just think, like most people crap on it and I'm fascinated by any values for no other reason than it makes all those sequel mistakes and Thrive's yes so that's just how perfect the casting is, that's how perfect the movies were and is.
Speaker 1:That it could do. It could introduce new characters. They can introduce an entirely new family member to an iconic family. Yes, take them out of their home, put them in the other thing. I mean it's like Jason in New York or Jason in space and the Friday 13th, which those are not considered the best movies, but this one somehow works. Yeah, I think that's a lot to do with the, the, the director, still creating this very like kind of. Even when they're out in the real world, the real world seems very Off-kilt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, off kilter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know the camp counselor still seem very off kilter. Yeah to the other extreme. The parents of that girl all feel off kilter. Yeah they still managed to grasp like. This is a caricature of suburbia.
Speaker 2:Well, it's because, yeah, it's because the Adam Stanley is macabre and strangers are they are true to themselves, yeah, and that's kind of the thing around them's fate, yeah it's the camp counselors that wish they had made a Broadway show.
Speaker 1:Yes the parents are like our parents have done this and you know, or like this is our kid. Our kids made all these accomplishments towards our thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go mess hugs pugs and says probation you know, like he's proud of his son, for Son it you know, and so yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:No, I but your final verdict.
Speaker 2:I think my final verdict is just on the other side of it, but I think they're. The quality is so good from a to b, but I do have a favoritism towards the second one. I just I think that again, I'm weirdly in the set of the boat, where you are normally, where it's like I think the characters get expanded. There's more fun. I think the antagonist is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:John Q's X character, and then, yeah, all the stuff at summer camp, so good.
Speaker 1:It's so good when she starts going off this, off the speech.
Speaker 2:You know the Native American play Strangely very, very, very like forward thinking for a movie from 1993.
Speaker 1:She's like accusing them of stealing their land and all that stuff and like saying like all you white people get this and we will Be suffer one. No, suffering. Yes and then they I'm not sure if they murder these kids.
Speaker 2:It's most like. Like most of the movies, it's heavily implied all these people are dead or alive. It's like Willy Wonka it's just imply that they're not the same, that they're dead yeah and so no I.
Speaker 1:Everything in that summer camp is so good, even the serial killer trading cards. That's forward thinking. They call that, they call that an obsession with. They're weird, in 1983, round the session with serial killers. And then here we are in 2023 and it's like the most basic white girl thing since pumpkin spice. Yeah and so it's just I love it. It's a great movie I highly. I love rounding out the Halloween season with this movie for sure. Which means it's November coming up and we have no idea we're gonna do.
Speaker 2:No, there's not, but we'll think of something. But until the only Thanksgiving movie we know has two characters. Hey, that's a Really short episode. Hey, it was really easy day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those two characters are Steve Martin, john Canyon. You can't replace them ever. All right. Well, that's a defense of the sequel. Watch Adams family one and two back to back. Preferably it's a package deal. In my opinion, happy Halloween and happy Halloween from quantum recast say goodnight Nick, good night Nick. I.