Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years
Star Wars - Marry, Sex, Kill: Picking the Best & Worst Films of the Skywalker Saga
May the 4th is nearly here, and it's time to play that infamous game again, as Cory, Aly and Nick slice through the Star Wars trilogies, dissecting everything from the original's groundbreaking influence, the prequel's controversial legacy, to the sequel trilogy's polarizing impact. As lightsaber clashes echo in the background, we reminisce about the biggest franchise in cinema history, and debate which films truly honor the spirit of the galaxy far, far away.
Strap in as we tackle the Star Wars cinematic universe's ups and downs, underutilized characters and greatest moments. The conversation turns personal with childhood memories and the lasting effect of pop culture on our view of the galaxy. We're not afraid to challenge Lucas's legacy, scrutinize the sequels, and acknowledge the indelible mark that Star Wars has left on each of us, from casual fan to die-hard enthusiast.
Closing out our galactic journey, we can't help but muse over the enchanting power of nostalgia in today's franchise films. As we share our varied levels of engagement with the films, we celebrate the enduring spirit of Star Wars that unites us despite our differing opinions. Join us for a debate as lively as the cantina band, and may the Force be with you as you press play on this epic discussion.
Thanks for listening; If you feel like supporting us, this is where you do that!
Patreon (Just a buck to show your support!)
BuyMeACoffee
Check out or other content/socials here.
Linktree
Tapbio
Hosts:
Cory Williams (@thelionfire)
Nick Growall (@nickgrowall)
Co-Hosts (Season 5):
Aly Dale (@alydale55)
Ash Hurry (@filmexplorationah)
Cass Elliott (@take5cass)
Terran Sherwood (@terransherwood)
Voice of the Time Machine:
Kristi Rothrock (@letzshake)
Editing by:
Nick Growall
Featured Music:
"Quantum Recast Theme" - Cory Williams
"Charmer" - Coat...
May the 4th is nearly here, and it's time to play that infamous game again, as Cory, Aly and Nick slice through the Star Wars trilogies, dissecting everything from the original's groundbreaking influence, the prequel's controversial legacy, to the sequel trilogy's polarizing impact. As lightsaber clashes echo in the background, we reminisce about the biggest franchise in cinema history, and debate which films truly honor the spirit of the galaxy far, far away.
Strap in as we tackle the Star Wars cinematic universe's ups and downs, underutilized characters and greatest moments. The conversation turns personal with childhood memories and the lasting effect of pop culture on our view of the galaxy. We're not afraid to challenge Lucas's legacy, scrutinize the sequels, and acknowledge the indelible mark that Star Wars has left on each of us, from casual fan to die-hard enthusiast.
Closing out our galactic journey, we can't help but muse over the enchanting power of nostalgia in today's franchise films. As we share our varied levels of engagement with the films, we celebrate the enduring spirit of Star Wars that unites us despite our differing opinions. Join us for a debate as lively as the cantina band, and may the Force be with you as you press play on this epic discussion.
Thanks for listening; If you feel like supporting us, this is where you do that!
Patreon (Just a buck to show your support!)
BuyMeACoffee
Check out or other content/socials here.
Linktree
Tapbio
Hosts:
Cory Williams (@thelionfire)
Nick Growall (@nickgrowall)
Co-Hosts (Season 5):
Aly Dale (@alydale55)
Ash Hurry (@filmexplorationah)
Cass Elliott (@take5cass)
Terran Sherwood (@terransherwood)
Voice of the Time Machine:
Kristi Rothrock (@letzshake)
Editing by:
Nick Growall
Featured Music:
"Quantum Recast Theme" - Cory Williams
"Charmer" - Coat...
1977. The force is with you, young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of Quasim recast. I'm your host, corey, and with me is the lovely Allison Dale, hello, and the handsome Nick Grohl.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow so flattering.
Speaker 3:I have to start high on this episode it really goes downhill from here.
Speaker 2:Listen, I'm just starting some compliments out. This one could get rough.
Speaker 1:Corey, you're looking quite swole today. I will say Thank you, You've been into the gym.
Speaker 2:We're just going to compliment each other, because it could end with guns drawn by the end Because we are entering the most toxic fandom of all Star Wars. For this episode, we're going to play a little game we like to play on this podcast every once in a while Marry sex kill. Despite some comments, it's not the characters. We're not that nerdy and weird.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would be pretty weird, that's odd.
Speaker 2:We don't want to marry sex or kill any fictional characters. We do it with franchises. Yes, we do it with films, you know, because every franchise has those movies that you love and the ones you hate and the ones you just like. I like this one, but I don't really want to tell my friends, you know, this is my little secret. And we're going to do that with Star Wars. Yes, this episode Now we're keeping it within the three trilogies, no standalone Solo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are out. Clone War, all the TV shows. Mandalorian, another time perhaps.
Speaker 2:So we're just taking the OG trilogy, the prequel trilogy and the I don't even know what they call the new trilogy, sequel trilogy, it's the sequel or the Disney trilogy. Often, what it's referred to Sequel's what I hear more often than not. They need a cooler name the Millennial Trilogy, the Millennial Trilogy's great.
Speaker 1:So the millennial trilogy, the millennial trilogy is great. The let's just not have a plan for this trilogy. Millennial works, it's for millennials in the millennial faculty. It's all in it, the millennium falcons, just all through it so you're right, you're right okay it's there, so all right.
Speaker 2:Well, uh, we need to talk about the star wars franchise, do we yeah?
Speaker 1:well, for the uninitiated is that. Is that what we're going for? If you've clicked on this and you have never seen Star Wars, congratulations.
Speaker 2:You know what, honestly, I kind of envy you. It's impressive.
Speaker 1:That's kind of where I'm at now, when I meet someone. That's like you know, I've never actually watched any of the Star Wars movies and I'm just like oh wow, don't. You're so pure.
Speaker 2:Great movies, but, man, you're going to be in a lot of stupid conversations for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1:So give a quick rundown, I guess. The original Star Wars obviously dropped in May 25th 1977. And we had the original trilogy that ran all the way through to 1983. Then we had the prequel trilogy. When George came back, said Star Wars all over again, we were excited. And then Phantom Menace dropped on May 19th 1999. And that's really where the toxicity began, my friends.
Speaker 3:Little guy named jar jar, little smaller guy named anakin little child jake lloyd, and then, uh, it's that and the internet in the internet.
Speaker 2:The internet came in right when this happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the internet shows up and and you know, I feel like and we'll get into that discussion, but he kind of figures it out, kind of doesn't, and then he sells it to disney. Years later, after thinking about making a sequel trilogy, he hands it to disney and disney does what disney does in in the modern context. Uh, some people were fine with it. A lot of people weren't I.
Speaker 2:I'm fine with it, but uh, yeah that that's.
Speaker 1:That's star wars in a nutshell. I would say it. It changed cinema as we know it from 1977 on. Everything is compared and probably an effect has happened because of star wars and uh yeah, and we we've been trying to replicate that magic ever since yeah, yeah just a big breath here, for we tell you, I'll give some quick, I'll give some quick rundowns if you, you will.
Speaker 1:We'll list the nine movies that we are going to be pulling from Again Rogue One and Solo we're not including those or the animated Clone Wars movie that was released oh yeah, you're right about that. All the Expanded Universe stuff. Star Wars, a New Hope May 25th 1977. Rotten Tomatoes score 93. Critic 96 audience. Pretty high standards there. Yeah, empire Strikes Back. May 21st 1980. 95 critic score. 97 audience score. Return of the Jedi May 25th 1983. 83 critic score. 94 audience score I was about to say yeah.
Speaker 1:Phantom Menace dropped in 99. It had a 52 critic score and a 59 audience score. That's the lowest so far. Attack of the Clones Attack of the Clones 2002, 65 critic score. Rotten Tomatoes fan score of 56. Revenge of the Sith 79 Rotten Tomatoes critic score. 66 fan score that one dropped in 2005. 10 years later, force Awakens comes out with a 93 critic and 85 fan score. Last Jedi comes out with a 91 critic score, a 42 fan score. Probably the biggest divide, maybe? Yeah, because Rise of Skywalker in 2019, a 51 critic score, a 86 fan score.
Speaker 2:That's wild.
Speaker 1:It's very wild, it's a weird flip.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that's a major flip too.
Speaker 2:That's a major flip. So critics like Last Jedi hate Rise of Skywalker. Yes, Fans reversed it.
Speaker 1:For the most part, yes, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:But there was like a weird retroactive Star Wars fan that says no, I always liked Last Jedi a couple years ago.
Speaker 3:Was there.
Speaker 2:I think so. I think it was a lot of people kind of coming back and saying, no, I liked it. I think it was when Rise of Skywalker happened.
Speaker 1:Okay, everybody quickly came back around. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. Yeah, they're like oh.
Speaker 2:Because they crapped hard on Last Jedi. They did, and then they came out and Rise of Skywalker happened and those people hated it.
Speaker 3:Maybe we were too harsh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were like yeah they hated it when I was just like.
Speaker 2:I like both.
Speaker 1:I like Pepsi and Coke with the new trilogy.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed seeing all three movies.
Speaker 1:I think it also has a lot to do with your. You like Kylo Ren as the character, a lot like his story and how they treated him.
Speaker 2:Totally valid too, first hot take coming. I think the new trilogy is the strongest trilogy of the franchise.
Speaker 3:Oh, that is From first to third movie.
Speaker 2:It's just the strongest trilogy in my opinion.
Speaker 1:That's a strong yeah, that's an opinion.
Speaker 2:I would trilogy. In my opinion, that's a strong, yeah, strong, uh.
Speaker 1:I would watch that trilogy like front to end before I'd watch either of the other two. Front to end and this is interesting because an audience and ally, because I've always viewed cory as a original trilogy guy. Yeah, I thought so too. I thought you were I'm.
Speaker 2:I like the original trilogy a lot, but I just think like the story the new trilogy told was just the most engaging and I liked it the most and I think think Kylo Ren's the best character that's ever been created by Star Wars.
Speaker 3:See, I could see that. I could agree with that, because Kylo Ren really did have an incredible character arc. Yes, and he's phenomenal. Yeah, he's. I mean, adam Driver just did an excellent job with Kylo Ren. There's no doubt about that. I would not, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I, like Rey and Finn, thought the casting was just really good, wholeheartedly sure yeah, I think the only misstep, which everything's gonna have. Missteps is, uh, they, you know, good gosh. Star wars could never get boba fett right and they could never replicate him, despite multiple tries no yeah and the new trilogy boba fett, which was the captain, phasma, phantasma. Well, that was the thing is. Is that?
Speaker 1:star wars itself. What's the it's's if it wasn't the creation of a trope? It was definitely like the one that cemented it. Like Boba Fett is the mysterious character in the background that everyone thinks is really cool and you want the backstory about them. So then every major franchise was like we need a Boba Fett.
Speaker 2:Like it's interesting. I've also seen like a new retroactive nerd thing where they're all saying Boba Fett's not that cool and we never thought he was that cool. Yeah, I've seen that and it's just like and that's that contrarian attitude that makes this fandom toxic. It's just what weird thing can I say on the Internet?
Speaker 2:Oh you know and so um, but like and I would say that's the only miscasting that I don't love in the new one is like. I thought that was a weird like. It's like it felt like they were trying to create a new bobafett with this eight foot tall silver right, yeah, played by gwendolyn christie, I think of, uh, the game of thrones yeah and it just didn't work and, like luckily, the directors, I think, saw it didn't work right away and they just didn't go on with the character yeah and so um, but that's just.
Speaker 2:I don't know that's. That's just. I just bought something on your lex how dare you? Probably a captain phasma action figure captain phasma, funko pop. Okay, I'll say this so star wars like here's I think here's the best way to put it star wars became a license to sell merch yes it's the, it's the rock band.
Speaker 2:Kiss of sci-fi. It's just what can we slap our name on and sell? And george lucas loved that money and we all saw that. It's like when the prequels came, he was writing to sell merch, which is why jar, jar binks is a thing, but I think with every single star wars movie, you, you, you can go in a toy aisle and remember what didn't sell yeah yeah, and phasmas were everywhere, no one bought them. They were like this is gonna be the new Boba Fett. We're like no, it's not.
Speaker 1:Tr8r was right there that was your new Boba Fett, especially for a series. That was like I've written my story. Now you write your story like you tell me why didn't Rian Johnson go? Oh, that's your 8R guy's pretty cool yeah, everybody really likes him, we'll be going for him.
Speaker 2:you know, like let's, let's swap this out real quick, and so we get that guy back. And so I think like, but to my point, I think, like I really think the cast of the first I don't know. I think the newest trilogy is the strongest trilogy. That's my hot take.
Speaker 1:Okay, and we'll definitely be diving into that more. I think once we reveal our Mary sex and kills, yeah.
Speaker 3:Allie, are there any hot takes you going to come out when we do our Mary Six Kill?
Speaker 1:Okay, the only thing I will say, just to jump off of what Corey's talking about, is that, yes, star Wars is interesting because you have a guy who is an auteur filmmaker. You could argue we have a lot of auteur, pretentious type of cinephile types now, and George Lucas was kind of that before that, like his THX movie, was trying to like make all this high concept stuff he really didn't have a major interest in like blockbuster cinema, he was just recreating things of his childhood basically, which I guess is just what franchises are.
Speaker 2:He was john carpenter. Yeah, the same thing, like he actually created something that got away from him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's fair and and so the his entire watching a lot of like the stuff and reading about it. You see that he's this guy that wants control of his story and which is something he learned early on was like the studio is going to take that away from me. So once star wars itself 77 was a success, he did everything in his power to make sure empire. He did it as an independent filmmaker and he almost had to go to the studio and get money to finish it, but luckily it finished. It was successful.
Speaker 2:He made the third one but he got a different director and it got a different director.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and to cory's point, that's about when it started shifting to oh, I need to start thinking more in the mindset of what's going to sell that's a buttload of action figures like the fact that that was half the deal was like. He was like I get the rights to the toys and they're like sure, whatever, yeah man and he owns all the rights to it.
Speaker 1:So that's why he's making boo-coos of money, or did make boo-coos of money. But then you see, when the prequel trilogy comes out, it's a man that basically has, yes, men around him, and it's people gone. Gone are the people that he worked with in the 70s and 80s that said that's a bad idea. George, maybe you shouldn't do that to a bunch of people that treat him like a god basically, yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's, it's the. There's books and documentaries, essentially on people that were there and they're like, oh, you just didn't tell him no.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like dude. I'm working with George Lucas on the new Star Wars.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like I'm not going to get fired over him saying something stupid.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:Jar Jar Binks is going to be the next Boba Fett. This guy's going to be huge.
Speaker 1:It's a very smiling it's a very like what's that kind. I don't know what the proper term is, you have to remind me, because he is a man that went from trying to be an auteur, do it himself to eventually giving in to the tropes of big money and trying to appease audiences and stuff, so much so that he sold it to the company that now is all about pleasing demographics, selling toys, selling theme park tickets.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. Well, it's just. He became Darth Vader is the thing everyone always says. He became what he hated.
Speaker 3:You know type of. Thing.
Speaker 2:But yeah no, I think that's pretty apt Cool.
Speaker 3:I know we're not ready to do this, but are we ready to do this? Yeah, been looking forward to this.
Speaker 2:What do we want to start with Corey Dealer's?
Speaker 1:choice. You tell me what to do. I'm going to say we should ease into this and start with our sex, because I feel like, while there may be hot takes, it's a grain of salt, because with your sex it's your guilty pleasure, it's just the one that you're like. I enjoy this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, up top, I forgot to say, mary, sex Kills. That Game you played when you were a juvenile. You know usually about, like you usually did it with stupid stuff like Scooby-Doo characters.
Speaker 3:And you're like.
Speaker 2:Now Mary Shaggy. Yeah, you know I'm going to sex Daphne, it's what it's that. You know it's just goofy thing, but we're doing with movie franchises, and so Mary is pretty much our desert island.
Speaker 1:This is the one we will watch and take to our grave what we think is the best movie.
Speaker 2:What we think is the best, the one we love the most.
Speaker 1:Sex is the one that's like, doesn't belong and should not exist in this franchise. Right, because usually we do. We've started this series of minisodes with horror movies and your theory always is that there's a horror.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's always one that shouldn't exist, right, it's like non-canonical, almost it's like some director just said. I want to be different.
Speaker 1:And it's like okay, why? And it's a little different with Star Wars and everything, especially with the nine movies, but we're going to have fun with it and we're going to stay friends after this and we're going to be friends afterwards, corey, that backwards hat looks so great on you.
Speaker 2:Let's just preface this by saying we're all a little on edge because, again, the toxicity of this franchise is just so insane, but we're pretty level-headed people.
Speaker 1:We try to be.
Speaker 3:I don't know that any of us claim Star Wars is their thing try to be, yeah, like I don't know that any of us claim star wars is like their thing. No, I mean, I really enjoy it. Yeah, we love it, I really enjoy it I'll rewatch you. Like jurassic park more than star wars, right, and then like more of your thing, yeah, but I wouldn't say that I like the series you just want to sex.
Speaker 2:John williams, that's your thing, right that's fair, guys.
Speaker 3:I have an idea like mary sex kill john williams scores, scores.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that would be controversial probably and it's not like your thing.
Speaker 1:I mean you like it but I like it. I think the thing is that it's always been existent in my life and it's weirdly been a part of my life just being so tied into movies and I can get more into it as we get into this, but but, but I do it's not the thing, but I think it's an important thing for any film goer really okay, yeah, I mean it is, it's important to cinema, but, like I, just, we are a level-headed audience right we're a little nervous about what we're about to say but, like mainly, I'm worried about what the audience is going to say when they hear this, because some there's some toxic star war fans that listen to this listen, if we get likes and dislikes some people reporting about us, that's, that's news, baby all right.
Speaker 2:So, nick, let's start off. Who do you want to go first here?
Speaker 1:not it not it wow, thanks guys.
Speaker 3:All right, you know what yeah?
Speaker 2:which movie is your one night stand, alley?
Speaker 3:yeah, all right guys. So, um, this has been one of my favorite, uh, obviously one of my favorites. It has its flaws, but it is something that's near and dear to my heart okay I had a really um interesting experience the first time I watched it. I watched it with one of my older brothers. Both my brothers are massive star wars fans like I'm talking reading the extended universe, like they know, like if I have a question about star wars.
Speaker 2:I go to my brothers, do not tell them to listen to this well thankfully, they're level-headed too they're not. They're not toxic.
Speaker 3:They understand that the world doesn't revolve around star wars.
Speaker 2:It'll be like a knock on my door one day and then, like your brother, just punches me in the stomach and walks off.
Speaker 3:No, so my, we're doing sex first right, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Revenge of the Sith, episode three. I love Revenge of the Sith. General Grievous is one of my absolute favorite villains in all of Star Wars. I think he's such a badass. I love Anakin's entire arc or entire, you know. Turn to the dark side. I think the entire scene of mustafar is just fantastic, even even the the speech that goes on between anakin and obi-wan. I I love it. I eat it up every single time it's. I could watch it over and over and over. It has its flaws, it's not perfect, but I love it so much well it came at the end.
Speaker 1:It's the third one in the prequels, obviously, but I think, strangely like, what people were saying at the time when it came out, I remember, was like oh, george finally got it. Yeah, because like he was trying to go for that Shakespearean tragedy kind of mindset with the prequels. But he was also it's that catering with the kids. Like the first one had Jar Jar and everybody was kind of miffed about that. The second one had the whole romance thing. That just felt stilted and problematic. But this one, like he finally found some form of a balance with it. But it was also like here's all the good stuff, like he's going to become darth vader, he's going to turn to the dark side. The emperor is going to finally like reveal himself, even though everyone's like I wonder who the emperor is.
Speaker 2:He could be any one of us yeah, well, ali, as someone who has positive things to say about this movie, um, how did you feel about I mean, it's the controversial thing, right, the the no that darth vader's oh yeah okay, so here's the deal, all right, and let me just for some context, this is the first star wars movie that I actually vividly remember watching in theaters.
Speaker 3:I know I saw phantom menace. I think we watched it for my brother's birthday, because you mentioned may 19th those. Yeah, it's my brother's birthday, so I'm sure we watched it. Did not see attack of the clones in theaters, don't regret that. And revenge of the sith I did see in theaters and I and I. It was just a really interesting experience with my brother, so I was. It came out what 2005, 2005. I was almost 13 when it came out and I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time.
Speaker 1:I it from revenge of the sith. You know what?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah the no at the end yeah, got it for me it was kind of impact. I teared up as a 12 year old almost 13 year old watching-year-old watching it.
Speaker 2:but as I've gotten older that is so interesting to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm glad you say it.
Speaker 2:I really wanted your opinion on it because you like this movie and I really do think there's this weird line in Star Wars fans. But you have to just accept as there. That would honestly solve like 90% of the arguments that Star Wars that's what they watch. When they were, that's their first thing Me, I knew what Darth Vader was before, so the no was like oh, that seemed out of character.
Speaker 1:I would agree on that page with you. I think I'm I'm in between you and Ali and age wise, but also like have the same general idea of like. I grew up watching the originals and then star wars. The prequels were kind of like what I watched from the end of like childhood into my teenage years and stuff, and so the no did kind of hit me awkwardly, and re-watching it even the other night, uh, I was still like I wish, I just wish that had gone a different way.
Speaker 1:Like I liked the frankenstein, like nods and stuff and like him breaking everything with the force. I think it also highlights george's reliance on the cgi at the time. Like that scene could hit so much harder if all that stuff is practical and it breaks and it shatters around him. The no, because up to that point we don't really have like a vocally uh angry darth vader. Like he has lines where he's very aggressive in the original trilogy and stuff and this is the first time where he's really like it's a scream, like you never heard Darth Vader scream, so like I'm sure that's like well, what does he do in this moment?
Speaker 2:kind of thing so my thing, I guess my point, is like you just have to accept that like I can totally get someone who's first experience with Star Wars was the prequels and being completely fine with the no but I'll also say this I think I've come to just be okay with it anytime. I've seen it like in the in the recent past it's just like. It's just like the death of the humanity, it's like the last death groan of anakin for sure and then it's done yeah and now he's a half robot and so right.
Speaker 1:I think. For me it was definitely growing up and maybe you've experienced that as well. At the same time and it might have been a little early for you, ali, but growing up, during the prequels coming out, the first phantom menace comes out and you're generally like, as a kid, you're like that's fine and then slowly, like we talked about, the internet kind of pushes out the idea of like jar jar sucks jake lloyd's.
Speaker 1:A piece of shit like this is this is wrong and it's the nitpicking cinema sins of the world that has been birthed, I think during the process of these movies being made to the point that that's when we get become very critical of them.
Speaker 2:You know, and it is what it is like you get to an age where you realize like you have to like. It's like even like we like pro wrestling yeah you know, and if you watch wwe, you have to accept the fact that, like they really want to cater to 13 year olds, yeah, they want to sell action figures, they want to things, but they do a decent job. Also, like we also want to cater to the 30 year old that has the disposable income to buy a $500 replica belt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know like it's like they wave that line where it's like star Wars, the prequel seemed to just say F you to the original fans, a little bit Like they just kind of said like we just don't get like we just need people to. The internet was new and they didn't recognize the fact that like the 30 year old nerd was a thing and was going to be a thing and that they were going to.
Speaker 2:I was, like you know, in middle school when the Phantom Menace came out. Like I was eighth grade, going to ninth grade. I couldn't find a Darth Maul action figure to save my life. I couldn't find the stupid lightsaber toy that had both ends, because 30 year olds were buying them in mass and selling them on this new thing called eBay.
Speaker 1:I mean honestly, it's probably between them and maybe the Trekkies and even maybe your Kiss fans. That's the first time you're experiencing adult fans that are buying memorabilia and toys. The horror fans are doing the same thing at this time, so I'm sure nobody saw that coming of, going like, oh, we're making this for the kids and the parents will take the kids to the movies, and you didn't think, oh no, the parents are going to be the ones that are going to watch this I just think the prequels like that's a flaw.
Speaker 2:It's like it's the timing's bad and maybe it is a little bit of like a director who just doesn't want to let go of his thing he wants the. It is. It's vince mcmahon in wrestling it's like you have to like go. I'm a little antiquated. What's cool? Now someone tell me what the market looks like, you know, instead of just thinking you know everything, because they could have like done enough research to say, like well, I just watched the documentary Trekkies and there's a lot of nerdy adults out there.
Speaker 3:Just dropping money on this crap.
Speaker 2:So maybe we can go a little hard in the paint here you know, maybe we can like tone gritty this up a little bit.
Speaker 3:That's what's it, that's, what's it, that's what's so, just to piggyback off of what, what we're talking about and ali's choice of revenge, of the sith, my, my, uh, my sex choice.
Speaker 1:My guilty pleasure is phantom menace. Okay, totally fair, and I think a lot of it does play into some of that nostalgia a little bit like because, if you remember, like like we're talking about right now, after this prequels came out, there was this period of time where everybody shunned them and then, even when force awakens came out, it was designed as an apology letter to fans of like. We're sorry that happened. We're making this like star wars, like you remember again yeah, yeah but obviously we've.
Speaker 1:There's been some time has passed and suddenly shown like, oh wait, no, there are things to enjoy about these movies, for sure, and that one is a weird hodgepodge of things because it's him getting introduced to a lot of cgi but he's still using a lot of practical sets and effects and stuff. So there's still some of that original Star Wars going on. But you're getting that influx of. We've got to make Jar Jar really funny to sell the kids it's the Ewok blown on steroids.
Speaker 1:Basically because for every Jar Jar quip there is, there's the Padre sequence, which is really well put together.
Speaker 2:It's well put together, but I okay, go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead.
Speaker 1:There's the podcast sequence, the duel at the end, you know the design of Darth Maul just being a badass hot take. They shouldn't have killed him.
Speaker 2:Obviously he in the in the lore. That's not a hot take, that's just universally agreed we?
Speaker 1:This is where somebody should have said you really shouldn't kill him because he's kind of cool.
Speaker 2:This is your Boba Fett. Yeah, this is the guy. This is your.
Speaker 1:Darth Vader for the next three movies.
Speaker 3:Also Liam Neeson, as Qui-Gon Jinn was also fantastic.
Speaker 1:Like there's a lot of groundwork that you have to do in that first movie to get these three movies to even work and between Qui-Gon Jinn and the casting of Obi-Wan place, because, because even McGregor's Obi-Wan is the unsung hero of that entire trilogy, like he is the most consistent through all three movies and kind of carries that movie on his shoulders for the most part.
Speaker 3:Also the Phantom Menace had that really neat poster to Jake Lloyd like kind of walking in the shadow is Darth Vader.
Speaker 1:My, my personal history with Phantom Menace was this was late childhood era of Nick, where we were just starting to get to watch adult slash live action movies. I'd watch star wars movies. I'd grown up watching franchises like that, but for some reason uh, darth maul looking like the devil. I was not allowed to watch phantom menace when it came out in theaters. Had to wait till it came out on vhs. Sat down and watched it as family. Oh, turns out it's fine fran, I know I know.
Speaker 1:But it was so much so that I bought like a scholastic novelization of the book. In between the time and when I read that darth maul dies, I was like I was in denial. I was like there's no he, no they. They had some, he's fine he's he's, he's gonna be, he's.
Speaker 1:This dude's too cool. But it's a lot of nostalgia for me. But and that's, I think, why it's it's the guilty pleasure just because, like there is for all the like what we would consider like these the trash, the bad, the out of context jokes and stuff. Like there is a lot of fun, really good sci-fi stuff hidden in there I think also with the phantom menace.
Speaker 3:For, like me personally, because I 99, I was seven, um, I, my brothers, watched star wars growing up, but me being the little sister who just wanted to re-watch beauty and the beast in jurassic park over and over again, I never had an interest in it. But I will say when this is really silly. But when Weird Al came out with the saga begins, that actually made me want to go watch Star Wars. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I remember us watching the music video. I don't know why my dad loves that song. He thinks, even though my dad doesn't like Star Wars. My mom's the Star Wars, but hey, yeah, that was one that that got me into Phantom Menace. And here I am today.
Speaker 1:Thanks Weird Al. Good job. Al yeah banger uh star wars songs. There's also yoda in the style of lola.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, I forgot about that one. That's a good one as well. Cory, your thoughts on phantom menace.
Speaker 1:You were ready, but you gave me time and I appreciate it. Well, phantom menace is also my sex really really hey, hey different reasons.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, okay, I'm not a nostalgia person, got it I am very much of the theory that nostalgia is not based and you think something from the past is good. You just miss the past.
Speaker 3:You just miss being 10, which is what you miss.
Speaker 2:And now, don't get me wrong, we can watch things like Little Giants and still enjoy it, but it's still just more like it's really just I liked being 10.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:That was great.
Speaker 3:Life was awesome.
Speaker 2:No idea what was going on around me no responsibilities and no responsibilities and there were two adults with money that just got me things and so but I pick Fate of Menace solely. I actually hate Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon Jinn.
Speaker 1:I think it's sucky.
Speaker 2:I don't even know that he knew he was in a Star Wars movie.
Speaker 1:But isn't that what makes it?
Speaker 2:better. I think Natalie Portman was a horrendous casting choice. I hate all of it. So what do you?
Speaker 1:love about that.
Speaker 2:And Jake Lloyd. That's nothing new, that's nothing new.
Speaker 1:No, no, no.
Speaker 2:And like I don't mind bashing, because I think he made one of the best Christmas movies of all time, so I praise Jake Lloyd for that, for Jingle All the Way.
Speaker 1:He should have stuck to his lane.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, it's just. He literally plays the same character, it's just. Yeah, he does I get? Lucas is probably saying we have to show this kid as an antithesis of what Darth Vader is. But I'm like, no, no, just cast the moody kid.
Speaker 1:He had the chance. We've seen the footage. We've talked about this.
Speaker 3:There's literally test footage of the three finalists for Anakin and like it's to play in Sky High. Mike, oh, I know who you're talking about. He was incredible. He got the assignment.
Speaker 2:He nailed it. He is playing like there is something dead inside of me. And it's just like I love it. I hate that Boba Fett was originally apparently in the script.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:Or they were going to canonize them eventually, as they share the same mom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like half brothers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jango was supposedly because they tried the immaculate conception.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, he's pure midichlorian and I don't even know if he stuck with the canon of midichlorians yeah.
Speaker 2:But there was like an original idea that Jango Fett is the father of Darth Vader, that he came to that planet, is the father moved on, which would make Boba Fett and Darth Vader half-brothers.
Speaker 1:Got it right which?
Speaker 2:would explain why people think Boba Fett is Force-sensitive.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:In the same way that people think Han Solo is Force-sensitive.
Speaker 1:Listen, we were just watching Return of the Jedi and the fact that Lando is flying through a Death Star at breakneck speed and not crashing.
Speaker 2:It's so cool he's got to have some Force sensibilities going on there. I liked the idea. Seeds that Darth Vader and Boba Fett have a lot of past.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He focuses on Boba Fett, on all the conversations. There's clearly past there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But George said nope, I would rather it be Anakin build C-3PO. That was the rewrite, as legend goes, because they needed to connect to the original trilogy. And he said I would rather it be that Darth Vader built the robot.
Speaker 1:So before you go into what you like about Phantom, Menace.
Speaker 2:I think Phantom Menace is great for no other reason than Darth Maul, and it's the best lightsaber fight in all nine movies you're not wrong all nine movies.
Speaker 2:It is the greatest. It is just for the last 20 minutes alone. Like why we're having plots about trade federations and like this kind of politics is beyond me while we're trying to sell toys. But like that lightsaber fight is the coolest thing and Duel of Fates is stupid. Hot take. It's the best thing that came out of Star Wars musically. I got real nervous there for a second Corey.
Speaker 3:When you said it's stupid, I was about to. No, it's stupid.
Speaker 2:good Duel of Fates is the best number from Star Wars, Even better than the Whatever the opening thing.
Speaker 1:The opening fanfare Imperial March Duel of Fates gets you pumped. It hits it's a workout song. There's a reason it's played before sporting events.
Speaker 3:The chorus and everything behind. Oh, it's so good, it's so solid.
Speaker 1:I will say this about the Duel of Fates lightsaber duel itself Is that and there's something that Freddie Prince Jr pointed out after working under all the star wars guys, was that that fight is so integral as well story-wise, because whoever wins decides the literal fate of anakin. Yeah, you know, if qui-gon lives, he's, there's a potential, he knows how to train anakin, being this outsider, being this guy who's not just so, uh, a fundamentalist of jedi mindset, that he's able to go like, yeah, you got some anger, we got to work through that, versus now you have young Obi-Wan trying to grow up but also be like I got this kid brother, basically that I have to make sure he's going to go crazy.
Speaker 2:I never thought of that. He's putting a role of power to it soon, that's what the literal Duel of Fates is.
Speaker 1:It's the fate of Anakin. I never put that together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the Clone Wars and everything I also really suck at picking up on stuff like that. I'll be completely honest, I'm really terrible about that.
Speaker 1:You're watching a sci-fi adventure movie and there's a lot of thought that goes into these type of things. But it's not until the second or third time, or having conversations with friends, that you're like oh yeah, that is true.
Speaker 2:That's a really big point. As a seven-year-old, I'm in eighth grade, going to ninth grade, and Freddie Prinze Jr is the hottest man on the planet. You can't go out with girls your own age because they're all crushing on Freddie Prinze.
Speaker 3:Jr.
Speaker 2:And she's all. That's the best movie of all time. And you know what girls he grew up to be me he grew up to be us.
Speaker 1:He likes pro wrestling and he loves Star Wars. He trained under George Lucas and Dave Filoni.
Speaker 2:I don't even know if he played high school sports.
Speaker 1:It just seems like he's really into D&D. Please come on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Freddie, we enjoy it. You're one of us, one of us.
Speaker 1:But no, but that's the thing is like a lot of people want to be like, oh, it's just a bunch of flips and stuff. There's not like a lot of people want to go back on, but it's more about the mythology of it all versus like the choreography and everything that lightsaber fight is just ridiculous.
Speaker 2:It's the three-way fight and, like ray park, is perfectly yeah so killing darth maul and yes, it is a grave. I don't even I think killing darth maul is worse than what they did to boba fett and return of jedi. It's like he could have been just a trilogy villain yeah the, the last fight on, you know, mustafar, or whatever should have been a three-way fight that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 1:You literally have darth maul trying to prove himself all trilogy long to sidious, being like I'm your guy not this punk kid.
Speaker 2:And if you say, tell john williams, give us a duel of fates to a new song that's just as hype but calls back to the first one and you've got the back.
Speaker 1:You've got you've got obi-wan and mark dar. Darth Maul, the blood feud for killing his master, and Obi-Wan struggling with that. You've got Maul trying to fight off Anakin being like I'm not going to be replaced.
Speaker 2:This dude isn't on my level, it's the rule of two. If Anakin takes the dark side, it's now. I have to kill Darth Maul or be killed by Darth.
Speaker 1:Maul. It's the rule of two, and I get the of hinting at the future of Anakin in their own sort of way, but Darth Maul was too good for this Earth. Oh my gosh, it's so cool.
Speaker 3:Plus, the pacing in that scene is really cool too, when the shields come down. It's so good, it's so good.
Speaker 2:It's more than a sword fight. It's just awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're just waiting.
Speaker 2:You're anticipating and it's also this it's like, I think, in terms of a lightsaber battle, it's the one time you're, like the villain's literally the best person here. Yeah, he's literally the most dangerous person.
Speaker 1:This is like the kung fu
Speaker 2:fight and Bruce Lee's waiting on the other side of that thing pacing back and forth, and you're like, this guy's going to kick my ass. This sucks yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, but he pulls out lost technically. Yeah, yeah, it's him and vader and empire I would say both of them. It's like because vader is toying with luke at that point, really, because he knows he's like this is my son, I'm not gonna kill him, but I I'm kind of got to. So, yeah, I'm glad we're all kind of on a similar page with phantom I mean there's some appreciate that movie, but the ending is did you, were you in the room with us when we watched the phantom? Edit?
Speaker 2:maybe I. I was in a house for a lot of weird star wars things like.
Speaker 1:I remember the machete order, yeah, well, this, this might predate the time we lived together, but we watched the phantom edit, which is a a editor in hollywood has made it put it together.
Speaker 1:He took out all the yippies, he took out a lot of jar jar antics, took out a lot of the politic talk and it feels so good to watch. Like the first time. You're expecting that Jar Jar thing and it doesn't happen and it just. We're just moving right along and Jar Jar's still there. It's not like he erased him, it's just that he's now Chewbacca. Yeah, oh, okay. And you're like wow, this is so much better. And the most interesting thing but not to get too caught on the tangent is that by taking out the yippies and stuff, he also edits in the way that makes Anakin as a child less of like. Oh shucks, I'm gonna. We'll just see what happens. I'm pushing buttons here too. He's honing into the force. When he gets into the starfighter to take off, it's like he suddenly goes wait, okay, yes, click, click, boom.
Speaker 2:And you're like oh, he's already figuring it out. It's a call back to luke not looking through the visor and just taking the shot. Yep, you know man and so, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's that stuff. But like, oh the way, just the last thing before we move on to Marry or Kill or whatever, but the pod racing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I get. It's beloved To me. It's like a whole episode of something crammed into the middle of a movie.
Speaker 1:That's fair.
Speaker 2:It's just like, wow, we really stuck with this whole pod racing thing for a good 40 minutes is, take it a minute, all right.
Speaker 1:This is we put a fast and furious. A lot of time was spent, yeah, on the tatooine sand.
Speaker 3:We can't get away from tatooine guys, I will give you that, growing up in the desert, that was the worst part of watching. That movie was just all the sand everywhere.
Speaker 1:I hated it it's coarse and it gets everywhere. Well, speaking of things you hate, it's time to talk about the kill are we going back in order, are we?
Speaker 2:I don't care whoever wants to take, I'll go first because I think I have a pretty uninspired answer. Okay, take episode two or three. I could care less. I one or the other, they're both bad to me. I don't love them and I don't have any like new takes. I hate them for the same reason.
Speaker 1:Everyone hates, or the people that hate them, hate them yeah, yeah, which is people my age you know for the most people of the age yeah, um that just the prequels kind of just fail.
Speaker 2:I think phantom menace was all right and I think they just got worse as they went, yeah, um I don't like hayden christensen. I'm pumped that he's getting his second shot, sure, at redemption and I like that. I think that's a bit more of a like. I love that for the fandom like to say let's give him another shot it's more of an apology than it is like a redemption, to be honest and it's just.
Speaker 2:He was fine. And to me again, I think. Sometimes I look at the prequels as pro wrestling. It's like the performers just show up and vince mcmahon tells them what to do right and they do what they can.
Speaker 1:George lucas wrote the stilted lines. He gave the stilted blocking a performance.
Speaker 2:They did the christians has proven to be a perfectly capable actor, you know.
Speaker 1:And so it's just like it's not his fault.
Speaker 2:No, it just sucks you know that like that's what he got. I don't think him and Natalie Portman really had any chemistry, but I just don't think Natalie Portman has chemistry period in any movie she's in.
Speaker 3:Hot take. I'm not a fan. That is a real hot take.
Speaker 2:Personally she's fine, it's whatever. I just don't like those two movies and the only original thing I might say is they just don't feel like Star Wars, because, again, I'm an original trilogy kid. I you know. I was at that age when that stupid gold VHS box set came out that I think was in everybody's home.
Speaker 3:That was the Darth Vader helmet.
Speaker 2:So we saw the original trilogy a few years before this came out.
Speaker 1:And Star.
Speaker 2:Wars. It's dirty space, it's like space that's been lived in for a long time. Yeah, use future the. The two new ones are like. Episode two and three felt like too shiny. It felt like it hadn't been lived in that long everything felt sleek and sexy, it felt I didn't like it. What was the cgi? Yeah, it's the cgi. Yeah, that's valid everything's too.
Speaker 1:They didn't learn how to put dirt on stuff it's a little uncanny valley, yeah, type of thing.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm in the worst, the worst offender of those is attack the clones like like it, it's fully.
Speaker 1:It's him fully doing mostly cgi stuff and that's a burden on the actors who are not used to that and it's a burden on just like the aesthetic like you're talking about with the star wars universe and I love the man.
Speaker 2:I just don't know why the hell Samuel L Jackson's in Star Wars movies.
Speaker 1:Cause he's Samuel L Jackson. He's in everything.
Speaker 2:That took me out Like it's like. That is mother effing Samuel L Jackson sitting at the jet. No, and he's just, and he's Samuel L Jackson. He's not putting on an accent, he's just. I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't love it, I hate.
Speaker 2:Mace Windu as a character and I don't like the casting.
Speaker 1:I'm going to partially disagree. And in this conversation there also comes the idea of representation, obviously, and stuff, and I think having a strong Jedi character on the forefront that's played by a popular actor. If you had Denzel in that same spot, you might have the same argument of like I can't remove Denzel, I can't remove denzel, I can't remove will smith?
Speaker 2:from it. Just give me the guy that plays jar jar and give him something that's not so insulting that's fair. That's a dual role the thing, and then I'm not out of it and then years later I'm like it's the same guy and that's fun so instead it's just, he also got a redemptive moment he did.
Speaker 3:I heard that, yeah, that's cool, that's cool apology tours I guess for me, even though, like I said, I did not watch attack. Honestly I think I've seen attack of the clones, maybe twice, because I disliked it so much the first time. It's like it's just, if I'm gonna re-watch the, the entire saga, I'm leaving out two movies like hands down, I will not re-watch them. But so, but for me, I guess, with mace windu and just sam l jackson, I didn't see any movies that he was in until I was older, so for me it didn't bring me out of the moment at all.
Speaker 3:I didn't think, oh, oh, wow, this is, that's Sam Jackson. I mean I'd have to look through his filmography, but I can't think of one movie I watched before before the prequels oh Jurassic Park, oh Jurassic. Park Damn.
Speaker 2:I forgot he's in Jurassic Park.
Speaker 1:He is the only black man in Jurassic Park, that's so embarrassing.
Speaker 2:Oh star wars, hey lando carissian's there lando okay. So so, other than jurassic park, I don't think god, here I am calling myself a fan I don't, I just I, I don't, I don't know, I just those two movies didn't click with me. They felt like I felt like phantom menace was more star wars than two and three. I'll agree with that, I think.
Speaker 1:I think it hits when we talk about star wars, the spirit of star wars, phantom menace still has it. And then Attack of the Clones. It slips up a lot, I think. I personally think Revenge gets back on track a bit. Attack of the Clones biggest issue to me is that everything with Obi-Wan is interesting and engaging, but anything with the romance between Padme and Anakin just does not work because they're so brutal and I I've told this to people before like, had you given them action to like develop their relationship with each other. Like, they're on the like a bounty hunters chasing them. They're on the run. They have to go hide out in Tatooine again for some reason, because no one seems to look there, but I think that would have been more engaging. It's the outer rim, nick. All right, I guess nothing's out there. Tatooine Jakku, where the bounty?
Speaker 3:hunters go, man, it's all the desert plan because no one wants them.
Speaker 2:That's true, you know, the spice must flow, the only time the Empire goes there's because they just know there's two droids there and you can tell those. Why is it always you two? And you can tell it's like the stormtroopers are just like. I hate this assignment.
Speaker 3:It's like the whole combing the desert and space balls. Exactly, they're like this sucks.
Speaker 2:Like 1-8-8 and 2-4-7. You're going to Tantrum.
Speaker 3:Ah, damn it we have found shit.
Speaker 1:I'm going to request you go next for your kill no, nick's got something to say.
Speaker 3:I'm killing. Rise of Skywalker hands down no questions asked. That's without a doubt, because here's the deal. So Attack of the Clones was my least favorite one. Like I said, I have only watched it maybe two or three times since it came out in theaters. Rise of skywalker okay, rise of skywalker was, oh, I don't even know like where to start with it was, or it's plugging his ears I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3:Here's the deal. First off, if you enjoyed the film, like sit, like genuinely, I'm happy for you, like I, I don't I don't want it to seem like I'm just crapping on it, but I it backtracked so many things that had been established in the previous two movies, and that is something that I, I don't know. It felt like a slap in the face to those of us who did enjoy the last jedi. Um, I know it. It felt like the research wasn't done. It felt like Disney was like oh no, we did something that people don't like and so we're going to need to bring JJ Abrams back and figure this out, and it just oh man Reaction yeah.
Speaker 3:It was an overreaction. It didn't feel like. Jj is not the greatest at coming up with endings, it just I. I can't stand it. I have seen it once. It was in the theaters and I have not seen it yet since, like even just preparing for this, I was trying to think do I actually want to re-watch it? And instead I just read the Wikipedia synopsis because I have no interest in re-watching it, plus the fact that JJ I mean at one point they do the whole, they've lied now and they even say like I mean they have flown before it.
Speaker 3:Just, it just just felt like there wasn't enough research done, there wasn't enough love by JJ Abrams. I don't know, I don't know, that's just yeah. Rise of Skywalker, I'm killing that. All right, now make your turn.
Speaker 2:Sorry. I didn't know you were both going to do this, but fun.
Speaker 1:So, Corey, I'm just going to straight up be like I apologize, Like last.
Speaker 2:I mean, the attack of the clones is a movie. Guys Like we, y'all can kill it, please. How is the attack of the clones not going to be on this damn list?
Speaker 1:The thing about attack of the clones Corey. Is that it's bad, but it follows a plan. Yes, I guess, and it there's there's an intention there, it's it's being consistent in some form of telling the story with the rest of the movies of that trilogy. There's a lot that can be forgiven, especially after watching the last movie. So before I really say what I gotta say, go for I'm gonna fully admit and first off apologize to cory.
Speaker 1:I did not mean for him to sit in this chair, just have to take this um, and I'm gonna admit you know when, when this movie came out, it was a tumultuous period of my life. I'm not gonna dive too far into that, but it's there and even after five years, with more time to kind of sit and process it. This is just my honest, subjective opinion. That episode nine, rise of skywalker, is, in my very humble personal opinion, everything wrong with modern franchise filmmaking. It's a rush production, an overreaction to the divisive nature of last jedi, like ali was talking about. I feel like they played it safe and catered to the worst parts of the fan base that we've touched upon. Ouch, um, cool again.
Speaker 1:Again, I, I I'm excluding cory from this because your take is different than most people's takes, because a lot of people either love last jedi or they hate it, and there's this schism that occurred and those same people flipped. They loved rise of skywalker or they and they hated last jedi, kind of thing. But where, with the last jedi, I felt like it was trying to challenge its audience and move the franchise and the genre forward, rise of skywalker, just, it just relied on nostalgia fan service and it just tried and failed to please as many demographics at once. Like all that aside it's, it's also just a failure of storytelling to me, like the stakes are non-existent.
Speaker 1:Multiple times characters are killed off, just to come back minutes later mcguffins just don't make sense to me, like they come out of nowhere, or like the logic and time frame of them don't come together. Plot twist and character changes or about faces are just there for shock value. It feels like, and without any consideration to the story and characters themselves, and a lot of new characters introduced just to sell toys, which I get. I get that this is a sci-fi adventure series for all ages, like we talked about with the prequels. It's generally geared to kids. They're going to sell the toys and pleasing every Star Wars fan is impossible, but it's just the way that this film, in my opinion, almost makes every wrong choice possible and intentionally tears down all the possibilities and the new ground that Last Jedi laid out before. It is as incredible as it is heartbreaking for me.
Speaker 1:You asked me earlier how close is this series to me. I think I would be lying if I didn't say there was a part of me that is a star wars kid, that it's very integrated into me and I think now you're trying to for me now, like I was the franchise kid, back to the future indiana jones, star wars, all of the above pirates, matrix, lord, rings after it. I was a franchise guy and this was a point in my life where basically, like the best way I can explain it is like the last shoti was fresh. It made me feel like a kid again, like there's. It felt like star wars, as I remembered as a child, and rise of skywalker kind of just ripped my heart out, stomped on it and said you're gonna like your regurgitated steroid ripoff of return of the jedi and like it.
Speaker 1:Apologies to you, cory, I'm so sorry that's fair okay that's fair so I know that ali was like. I'm sorry to all the fans that like it everyone except cory. I have no apologies for you oh well okay, all right because I know you have a different take from it I'll get to and we get to marry okay, very cool, very cool. So are we done with our kills at this point in time? I I think we've covered Everybody's said theirs, right, you said the two Episode, two or three we said those Okay, yeah so let's try to move positively in this direction.
Speaker 2:Which one's our favorite? Which one's the best? Yeah, which one's the best? I haven't gone first. Should I go first?
Speaker 1:You went first last time. I went first first. I'm very torn and that's my problem with my mary um. It's between. It's between like being like old school and wanting to say empire and wanting, and but then part of me also tugging at the heartstrings of last jedi.
Speaker 1:I'm torn between the two of them and I think that they're both like the top tier of of this of the series yeah empire I think is the most consistent from beginning to end and I think that it nails the entire idea of a sci-fi fantasy like because before this you have buck, rogers, flash gordon and it's george lucas trying to bring it. It's kind of it does what lord of the rings did for fantasy movies to me it's almost like sequels are fucking good.
Speaker 2:It's almost like why do people think I'm weird for loving sequels? It's like and thinking the middle movie of every franchise is awesome well it.
Speaker 1:It highlights all the points that you always make in our defense of the sequels. These episodes you should watch and listen to. Um is that once you get the first movie out of the way, the world building, you're allowed to play in the sandbox. The characters are established, the world is established and now it's all about character and development but I think and that's, but that's why everyone always says this is the empire, strikes back of the of the series.
Speaker 1:This is the the godfather to the city, like they're always hearkening back to this one. Because it does, it's it. It heightens the genre, it makes it something serious to be taken seriously and it allows for us to move forward beyond what the normal happenstances of. What came before you had your flash. Gordon's planet of the apes, for all its benefit, was a bunch of dudes in like some very not so aged well masks, ape masks, basically. Like you can't. It's hard to watch those and really remove your brain from it a lot of the time. But with with the original star wars and especially empire strikes back, you're like you're in it, you're in the world. They have nailed the aesthetic, they have nailed the characters and they and this also allowed them to expand on the mythology and the religion of the jedi and the force. So you're just getting all the best pieces of star wars, I think now are you being a polygamist and trying to marry both?
Speaker 1:carmy wants to. But that's. But that's the car. It's like it does everything right and last jedi is so bold and what it's trying to do it's it's also it's taking the steps from empire and everything that comes after it and trying to go okay, we've done this song and dance. Let's go in a different direction. Let's talk, let's move. Let's introduce a lot of different themes and ideas to our Star Wars, to our science fiction beyond, just like spaceships and stuff and mythology building and heroes journey aspects.
Speaker 1:With Last Jedi you're talking. The theme generally is about failure and learning to grow from that and our mistakes of the past. Empire is a lot about sacrifice. Han solo sacrifices himself twice at the beginning to save luke in the in this in the winter storm and then to turn himself in the carbonite and then the friends sacrifice themselves to get han back with the problem with last jedi. I think it's a great film, obviously with my take on uh rise of skywalker standing. I think that, like cory talked about um with Phantom Menace, with the pod racing, I think the the casino world canto bite. I think it's issue is that it's that piece. It's like this feels like an episode of a thing. Corey put it best Like.
Speaker 1:It feels like an episode from some outlier thing that could happen, yeah, I appreciate that a B story for Finn and like his arc that was going on because the Enforce Awakens. He's very much like just the runaway. He just wants to get away and the only reason he comes back is to save his friends and Last Jedi. It truly affirms his status as a rebel leader and resistance member because he was already trying to run away just to save Rey or go find her and it's through that process of his B story that we get him finally committing to the cause. But that's everything else about that movie is pitch perfect nails it. I don't care what your takes are on Force abilities and stuff or the fact that they kill off third-tier characters like Admiral Ackbar. He's a fun alien creature. He's not Han Solo, guys, I'm sorry. He's not even Boba Fett.
Speaker 3:Were people actually upset about that.
Speaker 1:People were online being like I can't believe they killed off Admiral Ackbar just like that. He literally has one line in the original trilogy he's a fun meme, guys. He's a fun meme.
Speaker 2:He has the line in the original trilogy.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:First of all, next to I am your father. It's a trap, is it?
Speaker 3:That's going to be. The one thing that people come after me for is just that one.
Speaker 1:How dare you disrespect the Lord and Savior?
Speaker 2:respect their lord and savior admiral akbar, I just I'm no, I think like I don't know why I didn't know people were mad about admiral. I feel like it's more of an example of like you go down like a g man, yeah it's more of an example of just like what do we need anything credit celebrating?
Speaker 1:no, it goes down my issues my issues with rise of skywalker really come down to storytelling elements versus like x wings can't do that.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean yeah, well, I'm yeah, yeah, because again, we're talking about a fictional story in space yeah where planes shouldn't be doing this anyway. Yes, exactly so you're supposed to suspend your belief and just?
Speaker 2:have fun and I get about space wizards, people, right. Thank you, yeah, yeah exactly, I mean and I get that.
Speaker 1:There's a world building where you're like you've established rules within your world, but there's, if anything, the last jedi and even rise of skywalker. I will say there is pieces of it that continue to expand on powers of the force, yeah, and things of that nature, and that's okay. It's okay every people do. In phantom menace, they were doing flips. They never did in the original trilogy because we didn't have the technology to do it, you know. So if I'm gonna, I will play, I will play the old school person and I will stick with empire. So I leave you two to play from there.
Speaker 2:Allie, would you like to go next? Would you like to go last? It's up to you.
Speaker 3:Mine is pretty much just piggybacking off of Nick, so it's whatever.
Speaker 2:So it is Empire. So, it's Empire.
Speaker 3:No, it's not Empire. I was kind of struggling with the same thing which hot take? I prefer Return of the Jedi over Empire, but I was trying to decide between that and Last Jedi. And you know what? The Last Jedi is more rewatchable for me. Now, I'm not saying it's a perfect movie, and I know that's kind of the whole point about Mary is that it's your favorite of the entire series. I don't think it's the best movie out of the entire saga. I'll be fully honest about that. However, I enjoy it the most. It is so good. It has some of my favorite scenes wars, the entire scene of of luke and yoda I'm getting chills just thinking about it where you know, talking about the, the sacred texts and all of that kind of stuff. It's such a beautiful moment with and, and and. It was also the puppet, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:I just watched it last night. I should remember this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they went practical, which I thought was awesome. It also has some of my favorite shots of all time, like when um, oh, is it general hoda's? Is laura dern's character? Is that?
Speaker 1:her Holdo Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm also really terrible with names, so y'all please forgive me, but when she does, when she goes into hyperspeed, and destroys the ship it's so freaking cool, Like it's just. The shots are really neat, the planets are really cool.
Speaker 3:The ending with Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker projecting him which, by the way, an hour in spoiler alert, but um, no, it just I I enjoy it a lot now, granted, it does have its flaws and I'm more than willing to talk about that. The whole casino sequence I'm not a fan of. I also feel like ryan johnson um, kind of messed up finn's storyline because in in this in the force awakens. He is this runaway, you know, he's this self-aware runaway stormtrooper and I thought that would be really interesting to to try and expand on and he ended up not really going anywhere. Same with phasma that was another, because she's killed. Snoke was another one, although that scene in the red room is pretty freaking cool yeah I mean it's got.
Speaker 3:It's got its issues. It's not perfect, but I I it's the one I rewatched the most yeah, finn is.
Speaker 1:Finn is definitely as great as the kylo ren storyline is. In those trilogies I think finn is probably the biggest ball drop yes, of that trilogy I'd agree especially considering where they were gonna go with it with the original script and stuff before they. Before jj took over um, where it was really gonna hype, bring it all full circle, where he is basically leading a resistance of stormtroopers, it all comes back around. But yeah, I I agree with you on all those points.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's like a perfect movie by any means, but there's so many highs that are so great about it yeah cory so I'm like going to marry empire, like empire's, the movie, it's, it's, it's just, it's the perfect star wars movie, yeah, um, so there's no new ground there, like to say. But I'll say this I think it's tied with the rise of skywalker for me, in terms of just movies.
Speaker 1:I enjoy star wars movies I really I out of pure curiosity. I want you to expand on that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I would like a chance to just at least say why I like the rise of skywalker. Um, and I again, I just like the whole trilogy yeah I was a very like unicorn of a star wars fan, I feel like when this trilogy was happening, because I left the theater happy three times yeah and I feel like I was the only one and um and so I left force awakens and it was uh, it was just showers of well.
Speaker 1:They just remade new hope and it's like, yeah, but it's cool the thing about force awakens was that we it was again like we talked about, it was resetting the table palette, cleanser, going, and we all kind of had this agreement walking out going. Yes, we're aware it's a new hope all over again, but with the promise that there's going to be new stuff with these new characters exactly I liked it and then I left last jedi and I feel like everyone was crapping on it.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't I'm not saying y'all did, I just feel like I remember a lot of negativity around last yeah, there was because in my opinion, a lot of the reasons you see guys seem to hate rise of Skywalker is because it went on its own path. After last Jedi, I felt like everybody hated last Jedi because it did not follow. Force awakens in any trajectory. Ryan Johnson, in my opinion, made an incredible standalone star Wars movies that does not fit the trilogy. It's diehard two, in my opinion, diehard one and three. They're connected.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And diehard two is 2 is a standalone movie that I still love and think it's great, because it's still Die Hard and I feel like Last Jedi is its own thing. Again, the only thread I seem to really think that they got right through the whole thing is Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren's the thread that keeps a trilogy that kind of goes here, then it goes way off track, then it tries to come back on a track and so it's really jumbled. But kylo ren's the thing that like holds it together. It seems like every other character got, rewritten, got they didn't know where to go with it. It's like I don't know if it's because oscar isaacs became a bigger deal while these movies were being made that they said let's move away from finn and like, really give oscar a thing you know more screen time. I really don't know yeah um I.
Speaker 1:Apparently he was supposed to be killed off, like when he crashes in Force Awakens, like that was supposed to be it, like it was going to be a one-off thing.
Speaker 2:But it seems like he's the guy that leads the rebellion. Yeah, you know and maybe took Finn's spot in that story, and a lot of people a lot of people want to place him as like their, their, attempt at Hanick of Top Gun. Yeah, he's Maverick, he's not Han Solo. No, I don't think the movie tried to replicate Han Solo, which I thought was a good move.
Speaker 1:No, it's like that's smart that is, I would say the secret ingredient to the original trilogy is Han Solo, because without his irreverent, cynical, rogue, kind of acting as the audience surrogate, you know, because luke's supposed to be the everyman but he goes through this growth and process but you needed someone with all this self-serious mythology, the hero's journey stuff and the world building, someone that just is more relatable to a 70s audience to go. Yeah, this is all kind of dumb. Can we just shoot our way out?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I'll say this rise of skywalker, everyone hates the emperor thing yeah everyone hate the second, the music hit and the dead lives and the voice from I heard a collective groan in the theater everybody's like what the hell, is this you?
Speaker 2:know, and I'm just like clearly they didn't play fortnite, just like I'm, I'm, I'm gonna roll with this, all right, and uh, and maybe what it is is. It's like kind of like you guys like the whole darth vader scene and revenge of the sith, all these nods to Frankenstein. That's why I like everything with the Emperor here. It is some of the coolest shots, I feel like. I feel like Exegol's probably the coolest set piece in the newest trilogy. It's dark, it looks like a horror movie. Every time you're in that room it's just gritty and gross and I love it. I like the lightning, also one of the coolest shots in Star Wars, and it's like, yeah, it did, they hit a weird reset, and I don't necessarily know why they hit a weird reset on it. I just like all three movies, but I think Last Jedi is the one that like doesn't fit. It's just a really great movie on its own. So, but because Kylo Ren's in all three, I think they connect enough that I'm happy with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah but it's like yeah, I don't know, I really like them. I also to me. When people talk about nostalgia, I get confused sometimes. I'm not a nostalgia guy, but some people are really into it. They're like well, I hated Rise of Skywalker because it's just fan service and it's just nostalgia. Then those same people say Stranger Things is great because I love the 80s. It's like I'd pick a lane. I don't know, I hate Stranger Things because it's just too fan. Pick a lane, I don't know. I hate stranger things because it's just.
Speaker 1:It is too. It is a heightened 80 like yeah because it's like when we had an 80s dance in college and all the people wearing the miami vice stuff and then the stranger things look, but then, like you and I think your friend ethan cox, showed up in crop tops and and jeans and stuff and somebody that was from the 80s went.
Speaker 2:You guys are actually off, oh yeah we were, yeah, we were Like just ripped jeans and Iron Maiden shirts.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Brandon Brister, who was in high school in the 80s, was like you guys actually look like the metal shop kids from the 80s.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, yeah, we're like yeah, no to kind of I going to come after our heroes and then they went for the whole slow chase, kind of pulled by the string idea.
Speaker 2:The Knights of Ren is. I think it's a. I think it's probably one of the biggest miscues. Yeah, the original trilogy, because they're very, very like. Again, that's possibly your Boba Fett right there.
Speaker 1:Right, like they're seriously want more. Like. Why are they not just sent on a path? Why is there not a spinoff of the Knights of Ren? Yeah, exactly Like.
Speaker 2:why are they just not sent. Yeah, you know like.
Speaker 1:And you could have even used them, like in the Red Throne room scene. I was watching that last night, going like why are these red guys?
Speaker 3:Why not just the?
Speaker 1:Knights. I think we've talked about JJ's mystery box of storytelling, where he likes to present a lot of questions and then allow someone else to fill in the blanks, and that's what he did with Lost Generally what he's done with most of his creative projects.
Speaker 2:Well, I always said he's not good with endings. He likes to build something and then kind of walk away from it. Yeah, he kind of struggles with that and like hey, I think Cloverfield is one of the greatest things I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cloverfield Lane was weird and it's supposed to connect the Cloverfield Paradox or whatever they did.
Speaker 1:Oh, I forgot about that one.
Speaker 2:That's horrible, that's garbage.
Speaker 1:That's because they just bought it and put Cloverfield on it, and that's the thing, though I'm just saying it's like he doesn't have a great track record. It's weird that they went with him for the third movie.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:And I get the mentality like well, force awakens was a two billion dollar movie and people hated last jedi, so let's go back to what works. It's just a studio, yeah, yeah but if you're, but from a storytelling, filmmaking mindset, you're like who can we? As we've learned, completing trilogies is a very hard task.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's hard, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But like, but in in hindsight's 2020 peter jackson ended up by giving me eight endings. I was ready to go home. Now hold on.
Speaker 1:But my point is why do you go for the guy that clearly the only thing he's finished is Felicity?
Speaker 2:I think the new trilogy suffers also from two things. Star Wars fans like to be fantasy bookers because we've done it with all three trilogies so far. Darth Maul should have lived, boba Fett should have been more of a thing in the original trilogy, blah, blah, blah. And then I think, once these new trilogies hit dude, we are deep in the internet and we're just not going to be satisfied.
Speaker 2:We're all going to think we can do it better. And again, if you had kept TR 8R alive, if you had just gone with the whole internet thing and fan-serviced that, that gives Finn a villain and it felt villain because they were bros, you know, and one is sold out to the First Order and the other one's leading the rebellion. Like that's way better than cashing in on this Game of Thrones kind of tie-in. Let's get this actress in and never show her face.
Speaker 1:It just shows again like the lack of planning from one to three. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:It is that. But I'll also say this it suffers because for some reason, the same company's made a 10 year, 22 film, perfect franchise for the most part, and they couldn't get Star Wars like between three movies, like as cohesive.
Speaker 2:And I think it suffers from that. Just from comparison, Like it's just, I think people were like oh man, like just let Kevin Feige over here in Star Wars world and let him he Star Wars world and let him. He seems to think big, whereas with Star Wars they're kind of like just director whoever whoever wants it.
Speaker 1:It was a weird concept. Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was just gonna say that's a really interesting point too. I never thought about that because Endgame came out in 2019, didn't it? Yeah, yeah. So I mean, you've got a really valid point there. I had never really thought about that yeah, we're getting like a satisfying ending, yeah, which was, I mean, one of the greatest?
Speaker 3:I mean, I would argue, one of the greatest endings to, I mean, it's endgame is it's got it. Well, I'm not gonna go there, but I never, I never thought about rise of skywalker and endgame coming out in the same year.
Speaker 1:You also think about that.
Speaker 1:They promoted the rise of skywalker as not just the end of the new trilogy but, the end of the entire thing without acknowledging the prequel trilogy which again it was still in that kind of we hate the prequel trilogy mindset and then. But my thing to really touch, I don't, I don't, I don't like to get into the nitty-gritty like lore type stuff. But I will say one thing about the emperor part is that him coming back in my opinion negates a lot of original trilogy stuff in the sense that luke and vader were the ones to kind of establish balance in the force. My hope for the new trilogy was that we were. It was going to be an affirmation.
Speaker 1:A lot of times they talk about revolutions in historical context and oftentimes it takes two revolutions for permanent change to happen yeah and so, rather than like a physical manifestation of that, it was more like a balance in the force where ray represents it of no, the jedi and the sith are both extremes and there's a, there's a balance of that philosophy yeah, and I and I, I, I like, accept that, I think it's, it's, it's you.
Speaker 2:You could argue that, yeah, it feels like it undoes, like the gratification return of the jedi on some degree, um, but at the same time I always just kind of go back like what else would it would have they had done if they had just done? Ray is another jedi going back and forth between the dark and the light side.
Speaker 2:We would have just been like dude, we've seen this, we've seen it twice now like it's oh so it's like they tried something yeah you know my, you know it's for me it's like also, and like I should say that this is a really important thing also in this conversation is that I'm at this table probably the least of the Star Wars people. I like Star Wars movies, but I don't. They're not my thing. Like it's like I don't they're not my thing Like it's not like. I don't like. I grew up with them but I never got into like an over fandom of it I just think they're good.
Speaker 2:They're great, it's fun storytelling. I think they tell a cool story. So like you, you two, that like, maybe, like as children, like really grasp onto it. To me it's just another thing you know Like and I. It's just like I had a lot of fun in that movie. It's like I'm not as connected to like the lore and the storytelling as much as just like.
Speaker 1:This is a lot of fun. You know what your problem, cory, is.
Speaker 2:You have too much of a healthy look on filmmaking in star wars, but it's just how dare you and I my favorite moment, I think in all three movies, is when the, the ship, show up at the end.
Speaker 2:Like that's a feel good moment for me. I'm like this is great. And Wedge Antilles is there. Man, wedge Antilles, he's there, he's like 80 and he's, he's fighting. And I'm like this is great. This is the best connection I've seen to the original trilogy in a franchise that keeps trying to reconnect is one shot of wedge antilles showing up at the end. He is still flying an x-wing and he's still kicking ass.
Speaker 1:That's ali, do you have any? I I feel like we're taking over the conversation.
Speaker 3:No, no, you're perfectly fine. It's like I said, I've only seen it once, so I'm trying to remember everything. But yeah, yeah, I mean, and your and your opinions are totally valid too, just like I know that you mentioned that for us don't say that ali don't patronize, listen, I know nick not going to be on.
Speaker 3:For me, your feelings are valid, because here's the deal is that it's a movie that you really enjoy. It's a movie that that you know has its issues, you're aware of its issues and you know you're allowed to enjoy what you enjoy for the most part, which should be our PSA to all Star Wars fans. Just enjoy it, just try to enjoy it have fun with it.
Speaker 2:I hate Rogue One, and that's like that became one of the most beloved Star Wars movies.
Speaker 3:I hate it. I hate every second of it.
Speaker 1:You know what, though, I take back?
Speaker 3:about opinions, but guess what? It's the best representation of Darth Vader than any other movie. I will agree with that. That movie got Darth.
Speaker 2:Vader in 15 seconds better than any other movie. So good, he's a monster.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing, too, about that is from a from a fanboys perspective, from a young kid growing up loving it. Prequels felt like they took a lot of the venom out of the Darth Vader character. With Rogue One getting to see that, that was me being giddy again. Taron and everyone that went to watch it will be like. Nick looked like a crazy person because he was excited that Darth Vader was murdering people you got to see him in his prime.
Speaker 3:You got to see why he's so he's so like, why people are so terrified of him and why he has such a reputation. It's great.
Speaker 1:The last kind of note generally I want to lead into, like, my stance on Star Wars. Now, like now we've had this legacy, sequels, series come out and we've had all these spinoffs and stuff, and we see that replicated through things like Ghostbusters like Jurassic Park. See that replicated through things like Ghostbusters like Jurassic Park. It's become very watered down to me, like to see it's no longer exciting to see Michael Keaton in the bat suit, to see Bill Murray in the Ghostbusters outfit and they keep trying to be like, give that literally the Ghostbusters new movies trailer is just the Force Awakens trailer, the music, the tone and everything's like remember this it's like guys, they're, they're comedians that were fighting ghosts in New York City. Guys like yeah, but guys, they're comedians that were fighting ghosts in New York City. Guys.
Speaker 1:But now with Star Wars, where I sit with it, I try to enjoy it. I do the last movie removed a lot of times with these spinoffs with Mandalorian I've told Allie and I think I've told you this before I have to treat it like it's a Saturday morning cartoon In the sense that I'm enjoying it. I'm not trying to think too deeply with it so that when there are episodes that are great and just like some in ahsoka or like that, you get amando and stuff, or or like the series, or kenobi or the uh, the other series, my brain's andor I haven't seen that one yet basically so when it, when it, when it hits those moments with me that connect, I'm like this is really great, it's great.
Speaker 1:But when it's modern star wars, I'm not upset about it as much so I have have to, I'm just like well, it's just fun.
Speaker 3:And that's generally how.
Speaker 1:I have to try to look at it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and a lot of it is for kids. That's the other thing, too, that I think that a lot of people tend to forget is that you know, especially the prequels, like those, are for kids.
Speaker 2:Like you know, it's kind of like wasn are different, whereas there's a whole new.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm fairly certain my nephews love the sequel trilogy. I'm never, ever going to tell them you're wrong, Right. You know nothing like that, and you know that's going to be their prequels.
Speaker 1:you know, and then you know We'll wait until they're 20, and then we can let them down slowly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not going to crush their dreams.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're right, we're in franchise fatigue, which is why we do this very sex kill episode is because we get to talk. There's franchises with nine plus movies and ten and it's just like all right, let's talk about it. It's like once upon a time, only porn in horror had like anything that went past three you know like and so, and now we're at this age where it's like dude, we're on the 30th marvel movie yeah, that's been being the same story being told since 2008.
Speaker 2:It's weird. Why is Indiana Jones still a thing? I don't know. But then again, I didn't like him in the 80s, so I don't like him as an 80-year-old.
Speaker 1:I think there's the legacy idea of trying to integrate all those former characters into the story, but you're not recasting them. And Jeff Goldblum, bill Murray, they're all 70 and 80 now. Characters into the story, yeah, but you're not recasting them. And jeff goldblum, bill murray, they're all 70 and 80 now yeah and you can't do a lot with a nine, almost 90 year old harrison ford yeah, that's, yeah, I go ahead, I was gonna bring up.
Speaker 3:No, that's the. That's the problem with the jurassic world series. Without like getting too into it, is that the last. You know, the last movie, which I'm not gonna get super into. But I mean, they brought back sam neill, laura dern and jeff goldblum, but then they tried to integrate them and tried to write this script that was geared towards a younger audience, but it just didn't work. It didn't work with their characters. Yeah it, the movie didn't work, in my opinion and that's I.
Speaker 1:You know, it's that whole franchise there's also like this idea of like treating those characters with such reverence and a fear of actually killing them off yeah they do kill han solo, luke and Leia in the new trilogy, but a lot of times, like in those other franchises, they just won't.
Speaker 3:And you end up with nine characters or like stranger things.
Speaker 1:At the end there's 20 people and it's like how did you all survive this? There's dinosaurs and literal things from another dimension.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I think we're just in an age where it's like they still like the pop you know Like it's Stone, stone cold, glass breaking and you want the people and like there for a while. It's like that was a thing it's like when a character showed up. It's like you lost your mind. Now it's not shocking anymore when like luke skywalker, comes in at the end of one of the mando seasons it's like it's not exciting.
Speaker 1:It's like oh okay, it's luke skywalker but I will say a lot of it is also its presentation. Yeah, you're forcing yeah, you're forcing mark hamill into it. Yeah, so, instead of giving Sebastian Stan or just a new no name face like, this is our new Luke Skywalker. We're going to ride with him because he's a great actor. It's. It's giving less opportunities for new stories, for new actors, for new ideas to be presented when we keep relying on the same franchises that we've loved.
Speaker 2:But we need to let them be where they are thing, you know, and I think they can still get it right. You know, at times it's weird. We all went to the new spider-man knowing, knowing that andrew garfield and toby mcguire were going to show up, right, yeah it's still a special, like I don't know how I did. It's still special. It was still cool seeing it right again. It's the only time I've liked toby mcguire.
Speaker 2:Spider-man is literally in this movie I didn't like it in the first one, but this one felt special and it felt like, oh my gosh, he's like actually getting to like he's got meat in this role in this one and it's, it's awesome and so I think it's yeah, it's just about execution, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know I it is what it is star wars is like. It's now in that phase where, for sure, the fan base is never going to be happy because, they're having to create new stories and new stuff why can't they be more like you're? Gonna have to go away like trackies, love it all yeah no matter what bullcrap nonsense they throw at the wall they enjoy it unanimously. They, just they. And I tried watching the next generation like during quarantine and that is a weird, effing show.
Speaker 2:It made no sense we're gonna upset the star wars fans and the trackies of the same everybody my thing is like that's great that people love it, but I was like what is happening, like this, I have no idea what was going on. Just three episodes in it's like it jumped the shark eight times and this goes on for like nine seasons and I was like what is happening.
Speaker 1:If there's anything all Star Wars fans can agree on, it's their hate for Star Trek.
Speaker 2:Right, but I mean, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:And I think at this point you just have to accept like you're gonna, like you want more stories in this universe, or just stop watching and enjoy what you like. That's already exists. Exactly the best point someone made uh, patrick williams, youtube guy that I like to watch a lot of he's. He uh uses comic books as a metaphor. He's like when he watches a movie that he doesn't like in the star wars thing, he just goes. It's kind of like when he watches a run of spider-man or something just goes. That's just not canon in my head. I'm just choosing not to accept that.
Speaker 2:So Boba Fett is Darth Vader's half-brother. When I watch Empire Strikes Back, that's canon in my head. It makes those scenes more good.
Speaker 3:I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna have to rewatch it with that mindset. It's like weird Star Wars mythology and again.
Speaker 3:I've never gotten into the ideas.
Speaker 2:that just never got through all the way, and my thing is I watched like the first two seasons of Mando and I liked it I, but at the same time I just never sat down and watched three because I just I didn't even watch Book of Boba Fett and I've been a proponent of that guy being brought back to life.
Speaker 1:Corey's the biggest Boba Fett. Yeah, like forever, but it's just like I'm not interested in. I watched the first episode, I think.
Speaker 2:And stuff like that, and I think that's why I watched Mando, because they had the helmet show up with Timmy Olyphant's character.
Speaker 1:The episode with him and Robert Rodriguez directed. It is probably all you needed. I was in it.
Speaker 2:And then, once Boba Fett came back, I feel like that was closure for me with Star Wars.
Speaker 1:That's fair.
Speaker 3:I'm like I'm done now. This is fine and I think people need to consume everything that comes out, all the spinoffs and everything. If you just watch half of it and you feel like resolved or whatever man, go for it.
Speaker 2:That's how I feel. At least Allie can keep watching Jurassic Park 3, the best Jurassic Park. She doesn't have to watch Jurassic World.
Speaker 3:I like, yeah, I like Jurassic Park 3.
Speaker 2:Jurassic Park 3 is so good, it's the best one, thank you. Lost World is garbage.
Speaker 3:yeah, that one was bad thank you, okay, I feel so vindicated right now.
Speaker 1:Another time, another episode so let's okay.
Speaker 2:So Mary Sex killed Jurassic Park. Yeah, I'm not kidding, I'm in, yeah, so but yeah, for sure, this was a fun conversation. We're all still friends, thank goodness. Hopefully Star Wars fans listened to this and saw an adult conversation. It can happen. It can happen.
Speaker 3:It can happen. You can just like what you like, yeah, and just respectfully disagree.
Speaker 1:We definitely don't have guns pointed at each other right now. We're good, I'm going to go home and watch Rise of Skywalker probably, and be like I don't get their hate for this.
Speaker 3:Maybe I need to re-watch it.
Speaker 1:Corey's really hiding it. He's going to go have a tear and cry.
Speaker 2:Again, I think it just has more to do with I don't know. It's not precious to me that's fair, you know type of thing. I mean same thing with lord of the rings it's not precious to me that I think the second one's the best and that's precious to you, oh we got okay all right, all right. Well, okay, that was merry sex kill. Star wars um, by all means, we're on social media, tell us your merry sex kill for star wars like I'm interested.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like go find us at quantum recast on your social media choice yeah, whatever. Um, I don't know if we ever check x I'm we do I'm not going there, we do, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, nick goes down that cesspool and looks around, so um, but yeah, tell us your thoughts on a our um, I mean, don't tell me your thoughts on mine. I just feel like I have an unpopular. I feel like I have unpopular opinions, but tell us what you think and tell us what yours are, because we are curious. If someone says Attack on the Clones, though, as you're Mary, we're going to unfollow you.
Speaker 3:We're going to block you.
Speaker 2:No, we're kidding, we're kidding, but thanks for listening. We'll be back with a future Mary Sex Kill at some point, with some franchise. That'll be a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:maybe Jurassic Park that would be fantastic we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:We gotta go to the board, but thanks for listening. Say goodnight Nick. Goodnight Nick.