Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years
We are a time-traveling film podcast that journeys through time to take classic films, blockbusters and cult favorites, to recast them in different years!
Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years
Quantum Reaction: Movie Franchise Midterms
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
It's almost time for midterms, and Cory and Nick have decided to make enemies of every film fandom, by passing out report cards to every major franchise (and their fans).
After kicking off with heartfelt tributes to the entertainment legends we've lost, Cory and Nick dive in to give their honest opinions and grades some of the biggest movie franchises and just how toxic their fans might be.
We dive headfirst into the labyrinth of movie franchises, tackling everything from "Planet of the Apes" to "Transformers," "Ghostbusters," and more. We explore the rollercoaster of emotions these series evoke, from the nostalgic highs of their original releases to the exasperation with their endless sequels and reboots. Expect passionate debates on the merits and downfalls of each franchise, as well as thought-provoking discussions on franchise fatigue and the need for fresh, innovative ideas in today's entertainment landscape.
In the latter part of our discussion, we explore the powerful cultural implications of these franchises and the unique fan cultures they spawn. We compare the dedicated followings of "Indiana Jones," "Jurassic Park," "James Bond," and horror movie series, delving into what makes these fanbases tick. We reflect on their past glories and speculate on their future trajectories. Join us for an episode brimming with nostalgia, sharp critique, and lively discussions that will leave you contemplating the enduring allure of these cinematic giants (or ready to fight us on site).
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Tapbio
Hosts:
Cory Williams (@thelionfire)
Nick Growall (@nickgrowall)
Co-Hosts (Season 6):
Aly Dale (@alydale55)
Ash Hurry (@filmexplorationah)
Cass Elliott (@take5cass)
Terran Sherwood (@terransherwood)
Voice of the Time Machine:
Kristi Rothrock (@letzshake)
Editing by:
Nick Growall
Featured Music:
"Quantum Recast Theme" - Cory Williams
"Charmer" - Coat...
Welcome to another episode of Quantum Recast. It's Corey and Nick, that's right. We're here this week to talk about franchises.
Speaker 2That's right, this is our quantum reaction kind of show, and maybe it's not really a reaction, but no we just want to talk about franchises. Yeah, we just kind of want to talk about it.
Speaker 1It's like there's so many that we just said you know what we need to really hone in on franchises for a second. We're doing topics, what we're being topical Before we dive into franchises. Nick, yeah, death has been busy in. Hollywood.
Speaker 3He has.
Speaker 1So, we're kind of going to do our own In Memoriam. Start playing the very memoriam at the Emmys or something.
Speaker 3Really, which was just weird.
Speaker 1I don't know, who Jelly Roll's agent is. But that guy is earning his money he is. If you come and turn on TV, it's Jelly Roll, jelly Roll, he came out of nowhere. Yeah, he was like he just did the first season, the 50th, he's like the other Teddy Swims.
Speaker 2Like I thought Teddy Swims was going feel like whoever, Jelly Rolls agent is good job. You've done a good job.
Speaker 1Congrats. So you are putting that guy all over the map.
Speaker 2So Corey? Who else died? Because I've lost track.
Speaker 1So I was talking to you earlier because this works in rules of three right.
Speaker 2Right, usually it's three and we had like three this week, yeah.
Speaker 1Right, but in like Maggie Smith was a big one she's mcgonagall.
Speaker 2Mcgonagall and harry potter. Uh, we would know her as old lady wendy from hook, yeah, from which I thought she was 90 then she, yeah, she did such a good job that we just thought she was old forever yes, um, and but no, apparently she was probably our age.
Speaker 1Yes, but you did hook, um, so um. Whoever makeup artist for hook, good job, you did it, fooled me, fooled ever a generation of people but she just died and that was sad I mean most people she's like for our generation hook. To most people she's Mrs McGonagall, but she also has a lot of Downton Abbey fans.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Downton Abbey. Remember when Downton Abbey was all the rage? Never seen an episode, but I know it was big. She's also an Oscar winner, I'm sure she is.
Speaker 2Two-. She won for let's see here. It doesn't say who she won. Give me what she won with, It'll tell ya. So she nominated and nominated Oscar in California Suite in 79 and a leading role For Travels With my Aunt. Both are best acting. She got supporting and leading.
Speaker 1Nominated five times.
Speaker 2It says she won three times, in Miss Jean Brody as well, the prime of miss jean bode. It's saying 79 winner, 73 winners, 1970 winner no 73 nominee oh okay, I'm sorry. Yes, the winner in california, suite and the prime of miss jean brody sorry, we're just really torn up yeah, we're dying, so it's, it's hurtful um.
Speaker 1She's also in sister act, of course, of course, um, and then, uh, chris christopherson just died yeah. Which is a big one to us Midwest boys.
Speaker 2Yeah, because of our fathers and uncles it's always a name. I don't know any Chris Christopherson songs, but I know him, I know his essence.
Speaker 1See, like my thing is like my great uncle and all my uncles would have been like huge Chris Christopherson fans.
Speaker 2Yeah, and.
Speaker 1I'm more like he was in Blade.
Speaker 2I know him as Whistler from Blade I just love the story that's going around now that I've seen before where Ethan Hunt's talking about. He was backstage and Toby Keith was swinging his dick around. Christopherson puts him in his place and I'm like thank God.
Speaker 1Can you imagine having someone tell you have you ever killed a man? And cashed the check your country gave you to do so You're like damn, I have not. Sir, Check yourself. Yeah, Toby Keith told him to stop being a liberal and chris christopherson said I've killed a man before. What have you done? Wrote a song about a solo cop so um, but like so he died um and he he's weirdly like uh, he is a huge country artist but also did a lot of acting he did.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean he was in the original or not the original. One of the main stars, the barbara streisand version uh, honestly, my opinion, the best version.
Speaker 1Oh, he's in payback. Yeah, no, he's in a lot, that's right, wow okay, okay so he's in quite a bit of movies. Um, he plays jennifer anderson's dad and he's just not that into you okay great job, all right, okay, all right, chris, I see you. So yeah, great a badass passed away.
Speaker 2I just remember there was a joke, like he was at a concert or something it might have been a highwayman concert and it's like somebody comes up and like is like, hey, I'm a big fan, thanks, so it was great to see you play and like after, like, hundreds of people have come by to talk to johnny cash and so johnny cash turns I think it was johnny he goes.
Speaker 1Well, there's one so that's pretty good. Um, john ashton also passed away.
Speaker 3He's more of like a character actor he's, like he, a one of those that guys, sure, sure mainly known for the Beverly Hill Cop series.
Speaker 1He's like the serious straight cop to judge Reinhold's buffoonery cop. In the Beverly Hill Cop movies but, he was like in midnight run he's in just some kind of wonderful.
Speaker 2Which is what I mean. That's more my thing he like the dad in that.
Speaker 1I think he's one of the kids.
Speaker 2I really liked some kind of wonderful. It's a great movie yeah um he away.
Speaker 1I freaked out, though, because someone said out loud John Ashton passed, and I thought they said John Austin.
Speaker 2Oh, like Sean Austin's dad, I thought he did pass away.
Speaker 1No, john Austin's still kicking around man. The original Gomez Adams is still with us.
Speaker 2Thank God. Well, that's good. Are you sure it's not a Mandela effect thing? No, I'm pretty sure he's still alive. I would know if John Austin's dead.
Speaker 1John Asht, john Aston yeah, he's dead. I'm gonna be upset 94 years old, still kidding, he's still kicking. Man has had three wives and raised Sam.
Speaker 2Was game G, as is exactly so well that he took his last name. It's not a biological kid at all, oh so, no, yeah, okay um and then uh, of course, james Earl Jones died yeah, yeah, you know the voice of Darth Vader. Yeah, arby's not the order I was gonna go, but I get it. I get it, so yeah he's.
Speaker 1He passed away and I was going to go, but I get it, I get it. So, yeah, he passed away and then, like we're basketball fans, dikembe Mutombo died today Died today.
Speaker 2yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1And I'm wondering if that started a new three. Yeah, it's a new week. Is it a new three, or does Dikembe kind of kick. John Ashton out. I wonder if death goes by the tier of celebrities like C-list doesn't have as much stroke as an A-list basketball hall of famer.
Speaker 2So does that mean like if two A-listers die and like a C-lister dies but then another A-lister dies? See, I don't know man, I've never done the math if it's like one A-lister dies and it's two C-listers along, he's like, ah, gotta go get another one. Does it have to be at least two big names?
Speaker 1this should cover they should.
Speaker 2Some death, some final destination podcast.
Speaker 1Cassidy, that's your cast, that's your, uh, that's your new podcast you do an episode where famous people are dying we're assigning you that it's only three and so they're trying to push each other in front of death constantly so, um, I don't have to outrun you, I just gotta outrun death so but uh, um, and I mean tito jackson died I just now found that out. We lost the jackson found that out before, before we started a Jackson died man I mean it's happened before.
Speaker 2I mean yeah they've died.
Speaker 1Michael is obviously dead, and that was the big one.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, but Tito, man, tito's like number two, that's true, he's the number two.
Speaker 1Jackson, he's the most memorable so it's like Michael, tito, jermaine and I don't even know the other two. Couldn't tell you, janet, but she's still alive.
Speaker 2That's true, thank goodness, knock on wood.
Speaker 1So, but yeah, like it's just, it's wild that this many people have just passed and so we just want to honor those people in their selective works. Sure, sure, sure, because you didn't say Sid Vicious. Well, yes, sid Vicious, I'm also everyone knows who Sid.
Speaker 2Vicious is Just found out he CTE riddle stone cold doesn't believe in CTE Corey yeah, I saw that. Unfortunately, and he would know.
Speaker 1Yeah yeah, I don't know if he's ever had CTE, just had broken necks, so he was a fan of breaking his neck.
Speaker 2It was the beer he was. He was so drunk that it prevented the CTE. It's, it's a science thing, corey yeah, okay, all right, that's fair.
Speaker 1Um well, I mean, that is sad, though he should probably stone coach probably acknowledge that that's should probably do some research.
Speaker 2He needs to talk to somebody.
Speaker 1Most of your friends are dying in their 50s and 60s because of this buddy you should get educated a little bit Stone Cold.
Speaker 2He just walks in the room stuns us all leaves.
Speaker 1Oh my gosh, yeah, please don't.
Speaker 2You wouldn't want to get Stone Cold, stunned by Steve Austin.
Speaker 1No, because he doesn't care about CTE so he's not the title. It was almost the rock almost, but uh, they wouldn't pay him enough money, okay um. Back to the movies so yeah, we, we, we, we celebrate all those people that have passed um death.
Speaker 2Give us a break chill out, man, chill out. Come on, chill out, go on vacation. Summer's almost over it should be over, but it's 90 degrees in october's tomorrow stop being a jerk yeah um all right.
Speaker 1So let's talk about franchises nick okay um, because we're both weirdly maybe, I don't know not anti-franchise.
Speaker 2You're a franchise fatigue kind of person you just feel like they're everywhere and a little much I mean it just reached a point. You, you, I definitely grew up franchise guy. I loved all the things, watched all, and at some point, right before COVID, I hit my breaking point and I just couldn't. I think it was because of certain releases of certain movies and after a while you're seeing things you grew up loving being remade or the sequel being made and it's just not good. It's not what it was. We've had conversations in the past about this with you know, movies that were sequels, that were delayed too long, movies that were sequels that were delayed too long, and it's about capturing the magic of that time and that era and the crew and the talent that's in front of the camera. Yeah, and when you don't have that anymore and we've talked about this on our previous episodes of like home alone and adam's family and those have had sequels but they were delayed. There wasn't the original cast, not even the same director.
Speaker 1So like aesthetically across the board, it's just not even the same feeling, it's not the same vibes anymore I mean it can get yeah, it can get tiresome, especially since we're in a, in a world where, like I mean again, we're kind of old enough, slash young enough, like in the 70s we're really dealing with franchises too much I mean like bond existed by then um, but again, that's just because there was 50 books right, you know, and like um and and there's things like that, but like we're like the franchise kids like that's.
Speaker 1When like sequels became a thing, we had blockbuster vhs you can own movies. It became more of a. I mean, they found a whole other revenue stream, so they're like we need to make as many as possible well, the second star wars came out and they said wait, we can make toys for this.
Speaker 2Yes, and then that was pretty much the end of of it for everybody.
Speaker 1So like um, but the thing is is like so when kids, everything felt new, kind of fresh and kind of neat. But now, like we're hitting our late 30s, it's kind of like, oh, you're just remaking everything everything and or we're doing legacy sequels you know, and it's just kind of like it's exhausting you kind of like give us a new idea.
Speaker 2please, can we just not maybe, maybe wait new ideas, let young people make new stuff. How about that?
Speaker 1And then is let young people make new stuff, how about that? And then there's just some that get so bloated that it's just kind of now me. I'm not like a franchise fatigue person. I may, like I know how to tap out of a franchise you do. You're pretty like I'm just kind of like that was good, I'm done, you know, like I don't need to see you know more you, cory.
Speaker 2You're an irish goodbye type of person at parties, so just went to my high school reunion.
Speaker 1If anyone knows how to just get out, you do went to my 20 year high school reunion left without saying goodbye to anyone you've perfected the art of knowing when it's time to roll out halfway to my car. My wife was like you didn't want to say bye to anyone it's like I'll see him again in 10 years.
Speaker 3Those that make it fine.
Speaker 1Yeah, we're good so so I think between 2030 we should probably start having casualties. But for the most part, I will see most of them again at the 30 and then then maybe at that one I'll say goodbye, because then it really picks up, it really starts to pick up. Our generation was not well fed A lot of preservatives, it's true.
Speaker 3A lot of plastics going on?
Speaker 1Yeah, we're probably going down.
Speaker 3Down at the ship. Sadly, It'll be the millennial generation.
Speaker 1They go. Oh. Life expectancy went down.
Speaker 2Strange what happened there. Who would have thought, but like so what are we trying to do here, corey? That's my question.
Speaker 1I kind of thought it would be really fun to rank franchises Okay.
Speaker 2So by that.
Speaker 1I mean grade them Okay, Like a school grade A for great, F for bad Sure sure. Like it's just because we now have so many and we have a good sample size of a lot of them, thought it'd be fun to grade them. Yeah, I'm gonna talk about them a little bit and then I think, when we get into like the really top tier ones, I would also love to discuss the fandoms of franchises okay, because that's conversation in of itself now.
Speaker 2So what we're, what we're jiving into, cory, is a thing that's been done online a lot. There's this thing called tier maker. It's a tier list maker for everything. Oh god, now they're lettering. You've probably seen images of this where it's like no you, you have, you have, you have.
Speaker 3We're like this whole thing.
Speaker 2What it's doing, though, is it adds an S? Tier. Yeah, I'm not doing that. What is?
Speaker 1that.
Speaker 2S tier just means like the best of the best, like above A. This is like perfection almost.
Speaker 1Nick, I was born in 1985, so I went by. The A++ system is my S.
Speaker 2Okay, I just add pluses. I'm just trying to catch you up with the internet.
Speaker 1Corey Ease the black belt and you just give degrees. There's not a gold belt, man.
Speaker 2I'm just saying there's a way that this has been done in the past.
Speaker 1Okay. Well, if I say A++ or higher, we'll call it an.
Speaker 2S, I guess We'll let the audience translate that.
Speaker 1There was S on report card and it just meant satisfactory, that's like essentially a, C, but that's like I don't know. On our report cards you got grades for classes and then over. There's like attendance or attitude. They give you satisfactory or unsatisfactory but, yeah, what does s stand for?
Speaker 2I'm trying to look that up real quick because it's it's, I don't in the wikipedia yeah, because it's so trustworthy so it's just made up nonsense but I'm trying to like get like a proper again, though, I could honestly say what does sd I? Mean, according to tier makercom, what does s tier stand for?
Speaker 1I mean, I guess, A through F doesn't actually stand for anything other than it's like screw E.
Speaker 2It's just saying it stands for the top ranking. It's a tier list regarded as standing for superb or super, considered the highest ranking on the tier system. They can be tiers can be customized and at times a row for SS can be placed above S tiers. It's usually used for like video games, movies. People have made lists. There's a whole website dedicated to this, corey, where people will just make lists and you can go in and take a template, make it yourself. But anyway, I was just going to say that, so we're going to stick to the A through F.
Speaker 1So in case you've ever wondered why E is not in the grading scale.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Because back in the late 1800s it was determined that it was much easier to just understand that F stood for failed. And that E could actually be confused for excellent. So they just said E you're confusing. I don't know who put you here at number five, but you shouldn't be. Turns out, e was not for everyone.
Speaker 2Corey no.
Speaker 1They went F.
Speaker 2Mainly just because it stands for fail. They said E get your ass out. We're learning stuff already.
Speaker 1Corey. Well, gee, they should have just made E where S is, because E is excellent, that's true. S we're like. What the hell does it even mean? S is enough removed.
Speaker 2S is enough removed from the front of the alphabet that it's not confused like wait, why is E up there? Are we redoing the alphabet? I don't know okay yeah, you're right. I'm just trying to follow some logic here so franchises, franchises.
Speaker 1Sorry, we didn't discuss the grading scale we did not. Alright, yeah, so I thought we would like Sorry, we didn't discuss the grading scale before, we did not. We did not. All right, yeah. So I thought we would like probably hit just some of the hit a good number of franchises.
Speaker 3Okay, okay.
Speaker 1Like maybe, like I kind of created an honorable mentions list, okay, okay, and then as we kind of go down or as we get up, top, to them probably the more like revered franchises.
Speaker 3Sure.
Planet of the Apes Franchise Analysis
Speaker 1That's where I think we can talk fandoms and maybe go a little more in depth on things, uh, in terms of their, fandoms and what we think about them. Got it. I mean we can have a little conversation as we go through here, but um, I'm gonna start with our honorable mentions, because there's a few. Um, I'm gonna start playing of the apes. Nick, plenty of the apes isn't interesting, which is weirdly because it's now two separate franchises.
Speaker 2Yeah, you had the 70s, late 60s, 70s run, which was which, honestly, you could kind of argue was one of the first big movie franchises. Yeah, other than Abbott and Costello, meet Frankenstein, universal Monster franchise. Yeah, universal Monster franchise, but this was literally we're making sequels to these movies. And then you know the 2000s, 2010s and stuff. They're like we're going to make more of these and they actually turned out to be pretty good.
Speaker 1Yeah, okay, I like they're.
Speaker 2I think they're underrated as a franchise, like it's not ever talked about as like I and I don't and you never have planet of the apes. Like fans that are toxic. They're going like. This isn't the same. It's not as good as the. They seem to all just be like. I don't know if they're alive that's the problem from the 70s or whatever, but it just seems like anyone you talk to that's actually like. They're like oh, I really love those movies. It's never like it's not gotten to toxic levels yet it's kind of a niche thing.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know why charlton heston's a niche guy. Okay, like he's, I mean a he the star of the original yeah, the star of the original planet of the apes, the thing that kicked off the whole thing which I have no idea. Planet of the apes is based off of another ip, because didn't they weirdly make the movies backwards or something?
Speaker 1well, it's a time jumping movie like, yeah, like kind of it's like all over the place, um, but like charlton heston's the star of the first one right and he's mr movie star yeah, back in the day and he's a really I mean, he obviously becomes a massive right wing nut sure you know he's the. You can take my guns when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.
Speaker 2Guy, um massive gun nut, um which it's whatever, if I, if I saw apes with guns too, I'd probably feel the same way.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know well he.
Speaker 2The problem is he didn't have a gun when he fell back to earth, and so it's like if I had a gun I could shoot all these talking problem solved these damn dirty apes. So the series actually began as a book. Uh, a french author, pierre, I'm not, I'm gonna really butcher that name pierre bouel or boels, uh, 1963 novel la planet, this is probably um, but uh, that yeah so it was a book first.
Speaker 1How many books, I don't know. I'm going to buy these, I'm going to own these. What?
Speaker 2book so.
Speaker 1It's just the one. And then the movie just said all right, we got a backstory. Or it could be one book and they just made a bunch of movies out of the one book.
Speaker 2That seems to be the case, seeing anything more than that films. But yeah, there's no, there's no link to or any information considering following books. There's that stuff about the adaptation. You know, it's the media franchise, you know, and nobody talks about the tim burton plan of the apes either. It's, it's, it's just kind of forgotten. It's a thing. Yeah, it happened it's a thing.
Speaker 1I think it's a love it or hate it thing yeah, it exists I think it's one of those movies where people hated it initially and they've gone back and said it's fine, it's, it's okay at the time it was.
Speaker 2I'm still not. I'm still not committed to the ape abraham lincoln ending, but I get where they're trying to do their own thing and I get it's because everyone already knows the ending and maybe it's just like why tread on something awesome?
Speaker 2and you know, I think if they'd done the statue of liberty, ending people just been like boo we've seen it, we've seen this already, but yeah, they were kind of damned if they do, damned if they didn't I think the I think the reason that didn't work is I think they really dropped the ball on the apes.
Speaker 1Like the female ape has a very like modern 90s haircut, 2000s haircut, it looks really. It's very uncanny valley hell up on a cutter, yeah, I think her ape had like a really weird, like almost karen hairstyle. That it's just. It felt weird, you know. Then you see them in like like when the police show up and they're like in cop uniforms I mean it's not, it's like, it's like what? It's the same haircut as jennifer aniston had on friends this is more of a karen haircut, let's be honest.
Speaker 2Like, look at that. Like the short and kind of around the ears, like the hair, the bangs are kind of coming down around the face. Like that's a karen haircut it looks in. I don't know it's not the apes in the 60s looked better.
Speaker 1That's not the Rachel haircut, Okay no, it's not the Rachel haircut, but Jennifer Aniston had short hair for a minute.
Speaker 2Mid-length, yeah, sort of it was an attempt. I guess, but it comes off much more of a Karen than it does a Rachel.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, I think it's just the apes run Candy Valley Weirdly in the 60s you're like these look great.
Speaker 2I thought the apes in these movies well how do you feel about?
Speaker 1okay, we need to move on soon, yes, but how do you feel about the cgi apes I like again?
Speaker 2again. I think that it's one of the best we we've. There's been conversations recently about cgi being trash in movies, and that's the one franchise that seems to just get it right okay all right I feel like for the most part, it's like when they, when it's time to bring the ape forward to the screen in front, it's like, yeah, that looks pretty pretty good I've seen like clips from the newest one of, like steve zahn's character and it looked really good, you know, and stuff so all right, nick, moving on plenty of the apes.
Speaker 2Wait, what did you rate it? I mean, if you're, if you're talking about the as a whole, including 70s and and modern movies.
Speaker 1You can do two different ones if you want. I'm not gonna put you in a box.
Speaker 2Overall I think it's a b plus okay, because I think the original stuff kind of brings it down a bit, but it was, it was, it was crawling, so this one could run. I think the new one there's only four movies of it if you're trying to divide it so far and they're gonna make another one, but I would say all those, I would say a minus honestly, mine's gonna be sort of unfair because I've only seen like two of the newer ones yeah and one of them's obviously that first, james franco, weird one yeah um, that I've heard is probably the worst of the new ones it probably is um I gave it a, c okay, because I like a few of the older ones.
Speaker 1I've seen all the older ones yeah and I like a few of those and I just think the first one's so good that I but it just feels like it's very hit or miss. Sure, the franchise, mainly that's what it is really.
Speaker 2The consistency starts with the new wave of the new four that have come out.
Franchise Analysis
Speaker 1Okay, all right, all right, let's move on. Nick, yeah to lightning round one of my absolute. I hate this franchise more than life itself. Okay, the Transformers franchise, Nick.
Speaker 2It's probably in the man that's. The first one was fun. Everything else after that's been terrible, and I've heard the new animated movie is pretty good. I haven't seen it yet. I want to go watch it actually, but I'm going to give it like I mean, it's like I'm tempted to give it a D.
Speaker 1So like I'm like kind of not really bringing in the new animated one. I haven't seen it and I like the one we grew up with, that animated one with the song. You got the touch. Yeah, like that's great. But I'm mostly just thinking about the Michael Bay started Transformers franchise. I fell asleep in the movie theater during the first one.
Speaker 3Oh.
Speaker 1I thought it was boring. I don't know, man, as a kid I wasn't into transformers, I didn't get it. It was a little bullshitty and so it's just kind of like I didn't love it, okay, um, and I have seen bits and pieces of the other ones. The problem is is it seems like every. It seems like they've tried to reboot the franchise multiple times with new leads yeah yeah, it's like shut up mark walberg, john cena, the guy from the Lin-Manuel movies.
Speaker 2That's a good point though Bumblebee was pretty good. Bumblebee was good. The first Transformers was good. The rest were so bad. Corey, it brings it to like if you just gave me, like the original animated one first one and Bumblebee and maybe this new one, you're getting an okay franchise, but those other ones ones, core they're so bad, I gave it.
Speaker 1It's not like fast and furious, like bad, it's good I I. I gave it an f because I just thought the first one that apparently one of the good ones.
Speaker 2Sucked it was, it was passable. That was the thing we were like.
Speaker 1I finally got to see optimus prime come to life here's my problem with the transformers movies is, I feel like, okay, it's like nick, it's like your, it's like your, your favorite child dies like all right and you look at the other one, you're like it should have been you.
Speaker 2I have no context for this. I mean me neither, I'm just thinking I'm standby me-ing it alright. John Cusack dies, damn it you just left your will working and you're like, damn it, the wrong son died.
Speaker 1It's that and I think about Transformers, where I'm like Power Rangers franchise should have eight high-budget CGI movies where I'm falling into the nostalgia of it all, I mean it was the Transformers of the 90s.
Speaker 2I'm surprised, as you, that there hasn't been like a proper.
Speaker 1I mean they blew the thing hard, I think. What's her name? Elizabeth Banks. I hated when Elizabeth Banks was a thing. I just didn't get her Like. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2I'm sure she's completely a wonderful person she runs a game show now, if you're happy she just got rammed down her throats hard and I just didn't like it.
Speaker 1Um, and she was a terrible rita. They over cgi the thing. It's just. The song was cool, um, but like, I feel like we're at transformers now. We're into that place where they're like hey, let's do the one where they're animals.
Speaker 3The animals are robots.
Speaker 1Now, that's what I'm saying the animals, it's just the nostalgia porn thing of it.
Speaker 2I'm just like if you were doing nostalgia porn with power rangers I'd be all in I'd be like we're doing the turbo power rangers it was the start like, yeah, they made the. I think because of it they made the power rangers reboot. They did the gi joe movies. Now we're getting a crossover of gi joe and transformers. He told me that that's wild.
Speaker 1I'm not a prophet cory, but which, again, that's just fast and furious. So yeah, we already have transformers GI.
Speaker 2Joe, we're just waiting for Vin Diesel's car to become like. That's all it is.
Speaker 1It's like if Vin Diesel was driving Knight Rider.
Speaker 2That's just the movie okay, so you got an F, I gave it a D. Moving on Ghostbusters.
Speaker 1Nick the Ghostbusters franchise. Okay, we should have also said this up top. We had kind of qualifiers for what makes a franchise.
Speaker 2We did.
Speaker 1I said five movies or more you did anything below five movies needs to have either a series or some other adjacent thing to it. Okay, which is where Ghostbusters comes in. It's four movies, yes, but it had an animated series and a lot of toys, all that stuff. It's a big enough thing.
Speaker 2I would even consider Beetlejuice, a franchise with only two movies because we're not doing beetle juice, but ghostbusters qualifies because the trilogy, you know it, can live and die by itself yes and then like you were talking about. The fourth one is where they're going. We're gonna test the waters and see if we can keep this we keep going yeah, and the fifth one's really where it's like it's established, it's a franchise, because then you can pick and choose your eras, or like I like this one, I hate that one. We act like that one doesn't exist but I do think so.
Speaker 1I'll just go ahead and say right now we're not doing godfather, it's a trilogy video game or whatever but, yeah, it's a trilogy, let me alone, so okay okay, so ghostbusters love the first one I'm.
Speaker 2I have come to appreciate the second one, thanks to a certain someone I have been seeing actually like on the internet, people coming around.
Speaker 1I've seen a couple of I'm still not convinced it's better. I'm just saying I'm just seeing, I'm seeing threads posts that are like hey, I just rewatched thisbusters, this movie was pretty good, and I'm like, of course it is. Finally, I'm waiting for the threads posts that, hey, grease 2 is actually awesome.
Speaker 2Maybe one day, corey, maybe one day yeah, for me, the two new ones that came out the first one, afterlife was just straight up like let's just do what Star Wars did with Force Awakens they just remade the first one yeah, kind of bring back all the old people that for some reason even though they're 70, can do action movies. And the new one was like almost good. It was almost like you know it could have stood by itself.
Speaker 1Frozen Empire. Yeah, Frozen Empire.
Speaker 2You know you got a whole new squad. They're running the Ghostbusters thing, the original characters. They're just popping in doing things that are logical, that old people should do. Corey, like you know, help me with names. The original, the actual Ghost Hunter guy, he believed SNL guy Dan Aykroyd. He's just he's retired, he's like running, he's like I think he worked at a library or something and you're like this makes sense, like we're using the characters properly, but of course, old you're wanting the ghostbusters start killing off people.
Speaker 2I just want them to not feel like I don't want them I don't want lando carlosian driving the fucking millennium falcon when he's 80 goddamn years old, cory.
Speaker 1So you wanted. Like the bill, murray dies.
Speaker 2I don't need them to die, I just want them to be used, used properly in the. In the context of their franchise. Yeah, and they were, they were doing so good. I was like you almost pulled it off and then you and then the studio said now we got to have them.
Speaker 1At the end of the movie it's like but you don't someone in a room said if Bill Murray's not wearing a proton pack, is it even Ghostbusters?
Speaker 2right? Yeah, you know I'm giving a C plus.
Speaker 1I actually gave it. I felt it was unfair to rank it because I 50 okay, that's fair um which is sort of unfair because I haven't seen probably 50 of transformers.
Speaker 2But whatever f that movie, it gets an f yeah, I apologize to the listeners for my cursing rampage, but uh, it just happens sometimes I did you curse, I did, oh, I didn't. Multiple times actually I even cursed the lord in vain.
Speaker 1Oh dang um, calm down, next just ghostbusters, but uh, I mean, but the first two I would give like an a okay, but I I don't know. Think for me. I'm at the point where, if you pull Paul Rudd into a movie, I'm just like, I feel like you're in a bad place. What?
Speaker 3do you mean no?
Speaker 1I think he's just that's the guy you pull in when you want something to be charismatic because it needs charismatic boost.
Speaker 3Okay, you know.
Debating Movie Franchise Rankings
Speaker 2Yeah that's fair, that's fair. What do we got next? Pirates of the caribbean? Just tell me. Just tell me what you rank it, man. Uh, what's the grade? B minus, really b minus, that's that's more.
Speaker 1That's better than I thought, if you're asking me?
Speaker 2yeah, if you're asking me the, the trilogy I think it's one of the most underrated trilogies of all time. If you're asking about the franchise, they lost.
Speaker 1They lost the thread I know, but I thought the the last two would really bring down the the score there, that is bringing it down.
Speaker 2I thought you'd go. I would have put it A, at least Just the trilogy. If we're talking trilogies alone, you would be surprised how high it probably is up on my list.
Speaker 1Well, you shocked me, I'm going to shock you back. Okay, because you know that I've been a staunch defender of the other two.
Speaker 2Listen, the fourth one is fine, it's just Jack Sp. Sure, sure, take it or leave it, but that fifth one, that fifth one, corey, it sinks the ship. I actually thought the fourth one's the worst I know you love On Stranger Tides.
Speaker 1I'm okay with the fifth one more than I am the fourth one. I actually just gave Pirates of the Caribbean a, B though I actually landed right where you did, because here's the thing, nick. I haven't really gone back and revisited the other two and I think that has to count, cuz you yeah there's I didn't hate them like you did. You did.
Speaker 2You left the theater seething and I was like that was fun Not to get to just my main point of the, especially the fifth one, is that I feel like they'd miss Interpret Jack Sparrow, which is weird because it's the same writers. Yeah he turns from the guy who's two steps ahead and the drunken thing is somewhat of an act to mr Magoo.
Speaker 1Yeah, things are happening to him rather than him making things happen. But for all we know, that was on tap. Possibly sometimes these actors when they get it's like. It's like losing the point with Thor halfway through the MC sure thing sure. Chris Hemsworth Said came on the comedian.
Speaker 2now we're gonna do a reboot within this giant franchise.
Speaker 1Yeah, um, so Alright, okay, nick, these other, these next two, are kind of linked, but we'll do them separately okay, okay. We're gonna start with uh, mission impossible okay, okay, um a minus I give it a, b okay, which is, those movies are weirdly holding up they are.
Speaker 2That's the thing, and there's different iterations of them.
Speaker 1They're, and that's one that there's no consistency, except for maybe the last like four I think it's kind of like yeah, I mean like they're now like doing like what dead reckoning. Part one and part two now you know they are.
Speaker 2I think they've changed the title. Now they're like well, maybe we, maybe we need to slow down it is.
Speaker 1It's fun that it's kind of like everyone's just a different adventure based on ethan hunt it's for whatever reason. Every ranking list I will read of this franchise puts number three towards the bottom and I think three is a masterpiece. I do not understand the hatred for part three.
Speaker 2I don't think it's as bad as that. I don't think it's at the bottom by any means, but I feel like there are some entries that are kind of forgettable, and that's those first Christopher McQuarrie ones.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2And then when you get to Fallout, that's when it's like oh, we're going now.
Speaker 1Okay, it's when Tom. Cruise decides, I want to yes exactly, and they're like all right, we can CGI that in, but it's a franchise that you, as so far, like you could drop in.
Speaker 2It was like here's this director, here's this director, like you can do different people and you're getting a different take of it, and it's still there's. You know, there's the love to hate it, or for me, it's just the guilty pleasure. This despite mi2 despite the fact that it was built off of a tv show that had it was an ensemble thing. And they start the move, they start the franchise by killing everyone but ethan hunt.
Speaker 2Hey, and that's what you got to do, man you killed gordon bombay martin landau like hated it he was in the show, yeah he's just like mad about mission possible one I don't think those people are around anymore to talk about yeah martin landau's definitely dead.
Speaker 1There's no way he's still alive, um, but uh like, and it's also this it's weird, because I think after three they drop the number, don't they? Yeah, it just becomes mission possible, ghost protocol, rogue nation fallout dead reckoning yeah eighth untitled mission impossible film.
Speaker 2So they're changed. I think they're changing it from part two to something different. So but yeah, like cool and you get. Like brian de palma for the first one, like john woo for the second one. It's really until in jj abram, he should not be named. Uh, he made the best one, like John Woo.
Speaker 1for the second one, it's really until and JJ Abrams, he should not be named. He made the best one man. He made a decent one, in my opinion. Philip Seymour Hoffman kills in that movie. He does. He's by far one of the best villains. He does a good job.
Speaker 2He does a good job, okay, so alright, I gave it a B.
Speaker 1Okay, that's good. Okay, the Fast and the Furious movies. Okay, have you watched all these? I have seen most of them.
Speaker 2Okay, I've tried.
Speaker 1I mean, like I don't get them. My thing is like Mission Impossible is almost just as bonkers now but it's a spy thriller, and it has been since day one. I disagree Fast and the Furious.
Speaker 2I disagree with mission possible is a little more grounded in reality it's right on the cusp. It's like we're playing with reality and it's just believable enough. We're fast and furious. We're at the point where a truck is sideways going down a hill and they're having an anime fight inside and on top of it, and this is going for like 10 minutes they're angry bird, like angry birding a nuclear like a nuclear bomb across literally versus the chicken it's.
Speaker 1I mean like I'm, what I'm saying is like mission possible, slightly a gimmick. Now it's kind of like what crazy thing is tom cruise gonna do?
Speaker 2is like fast and furious. Uh, we had our friend of the show. I don't know if he's a friend, he's a fan of the show, but uh, ethan oh, he hates us.
Speaker 2He loves fast and furious and he made he put it into context best and I finally, when I went to watch with him, it made sense. Like fin diesel is creating a live action saturday morning cartoon. They all have their own car, they all go out together to do these missions and stuff they all. It's the funny guy, the hero, his long lost brother, his girlfriend, that keeps coming back from the dead. Uh, all the all the crazy stuff. Like it's it's an ongoing tv show, basically like turned because everything's turned up to 11, and either you're like, yes, this is fun, I don't, it's great, let's do it. Or you're like this is ridiculous, I just can't well, my thing is like I'm not.
Speaker 1I'm too old to bash people for liking things sure, sure so if you like them, that's great, because I think they're just disposable action movies. I think me liking Expendables 2 is no different than someone liking Fast and Furious 5 that's just because of Jean-Claude.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean it's just it has this thing I love, but like it's also ridiculous, though you you know, but that's the thing, but. But again, I think my issue is expendables has always been ridiculous. Sure, fast and furious was about street racing, damn it it was about racing for pink slips.
Speaker 2I mean, granted, there's never been a proper reboot. They just decided we're switching from racing to to uh, we're heist movie.
Speaker 1Now we're doing these impossible missions and stuff like vin diesel in the first one's just building cars in his very respectable size car garage.
Speaker 2Luke Skywalker was shooting Jawas out in the desert. You don't think that was a jump for him to blow up the Death Star.
Speaker 1And it's just weird, you know. I mean like it's hard for me to get on board, but like I don't bash people for getting on board. What's your? I'm curious, what's your rating of the Fast and the Furious? So I have not seen all of them Can't give a full, proper score.
Speaker 2but just based off of the discussion, what I've come to understand about them, I feel like I have to give it some respect. So I will give it a B minus.
Speaker 1I'm giving it. It's to me. This is Schrodinger's franchise. It's a paradox. Ok, it's A and F at the same time. If you view it the way our friend Ethan views, it is like it's supposed to be seen as this, like live action Saturday morning cartoon, which I argue. That's a bullshit argument because guess what? No one wanted live-action Disney movies. They're garbage. Just because you made something animated, live-action doesn't make it good. Sometimes you just leave things alone and you leave them in the box they're supposed to be in. But if you like them, they're fun. I thought the one that they made with just the rock and Statham was the best one okay.
Speaker 1I thought that one was a lot of fun, sure, and maybe it's just maybe I don't like the whole Vin Diesel thing around it.
Speaker 2It's not my favorite Vin Diesel franchise.
Speaker 1I know you're a huge Riddick fan.
Speaker 2I'm a big Riddick fan. I'm rooting for it.
Speaker 1I'm rooting for the comeback, so I think it's weirdly just both really great and really bad at the same time. It just kind of depends on, I guess, where you land on it.
Speaker 2So I'll just mark that as A slash F.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's just you know until you open the F at the same time, but you know again if you love them. Awesome. Next one Corey. Hunger Games slash Twilight. I'm packaging these together because I think if you made a Venn diagram, the fan base is the exact same. It's the young adult era of cinema If you like one.
Speaker 2there's no way you don't like the other. That's fair. I would separate the two. I've never seen Twilight, but I'm going to give it an F anyway because I'm a they're unreadable books, yeah I remember when the first time someone brought the books into class in college and it was some girl and I was just like I was, she was cute, I was trying to strike conversation and she's, and she you could tell she was already like in and she was had.
Speaker 2It was like meeting a star wars fan, like that's. It was the girl's star wars, that's what it was, cory, and it's fine, that's fine. But for me, like again, I haven't watched it, but I'm just gonna be, I'm just gonna be a, a jerk and say it's an f.
Franchise Rankings and Discussions
Speaker 1So I read the first book because it was getting big and I like to read and I was like all right, it's, it's. It's one of the most poorly abysmally written things ever. Yeah it, it definitely does just hit a weird niche for and it's not aging well, that's the thing it. It is, it's dumb, and I've watched the first movie sure and it was garbage. Okay, um, I'm I'm happy that christian stewart ron patt it.
Speaker 2It's like they are doing so much they have been working so hard to remove themselves from it.
Speaker 1Yeah, they have. They had to make just 10 years worth of independent foreign weird movies.
Speaker 2It's like Disney kids. They broke out. Well, they didn't self-destruct.
Speaker 3They just made a bunch of weird movies.
Speaker 1I'll say this about both. I think their franchises are both F, because the Game movie or books, on the other hand, are really well written. Okay, I think it's an incredible book series. The movie just sucked. It just could not capture the books. I remember when the first movie came out, so many people that read the books were just in denial because I left and I was like, well, that was bad, they're like no.
Speaker 2I've only watched the first one.
Speaker 1It was good and you're like no, just accept that sometimes we make bad things be kind to Hunger Games, because I've heard like the second one's really good.
Speaker 2The third one was in two pieces. That was the whole thing too. They were like well.
Speaker 1Harry Potter did it, so we gotta split the books up.
Speaker 2I'll give it a D. I'm a little more respectful of Hunger Games fans than I am Twilight fans.
Speaker 1I give both film franchises F. But I will say this, and this is the only one I'll do this for at the bottom but their fan bases get A+ their. Okay, like they're just absolutely loyal.
Speaker 2That's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1All right, getting to the top five of our honorable mentions. Okay, alien slash Predator. Shared universe.
Speaker 2It is a shared universe.
Speaker 1You can rank them separately, you can grade them separately, if you want.
Speaker 2Okay, tell me what you did, corey.
Speaker 1I just gave it a B plus for both.
Speaker 2Okay, b plus, that's fair. Have had different takes, different people do different stuff. They merge together for better or worse, but they're both in kind of the slasher vibes. But Alien is sci-fi and the original Predator was much more like action movie.
Speaker 1It's like a James McTierney movie or whatever.
Speaker 2John McTierney or whatever, die hard guy.
Speaker 1I don't hate them.
Speaker 2The thing is, I've watched most of the Alien movies. I've watched all the predator movies. I love predators. By the way, a lot of people don't like that movie with adrian with adrian brody.
Speaker 1Yeah, that one was fun, just because the reveal at the end that, like the predators we know, are actually the runts.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I just made way meaner, I felt like it was a more traditional, a better way to continue the story, because the first one was you have all these badasses on earth trying to fight one guy and then it's like we flip the script now. It's like you got all the badasses, but they're being hunted by the actual badasses, yeah, and like they were all very unique. It was just a cool way to like how do we get a samurai and a guy from germany?
Speaker 2yeah and a serial killer, like all in the same room together, like it was just an easy concept. So I'm good, I'm with you, I'll give it a b plus yeah, for both of them what's interesting about the two franchises?
Speaker 1I feel like Alien is the same movie over and over and over again with just slight differences. And in the Predator movie. Not one of them is the same. They're not. No, that franchise just swings. It does For the fences? What about Danny Glover and the City? Yeah, like we were in the jungle. Now we're in LA. Now we're on a whole other planet.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, it's much more like willing to like jump around a bit alien. You have to like appreciate when they try to do some lore building or like sci-fi stuff. That's why a lot of people hated covenant. We were talking about this earlier a little bit and I was like I appreciate it, cause it's just doing kind of bonkers stuff.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, inside of the movie. Ridley Scott got weird there for a minute.
Speaker 2They're like.
Speaker 1I want to go back to it. Okay, it is.
Speaker 2He's noncommittal. Yeah, hopefully not the same with Gladiator, thank God. Like with Gladiator, he's like it's not Gladiator.
Speaker 1And then you go watch it and you're like this is Gladiator.
Speaker 2This is 100% Gladiator.
Speaker 1This isn't the same world. They're mentioning characters. What's going on? So all right, let's get up to some bigs here.
Speaker 2Okay, to the second one. Both are great.
Speaker 1I like the first one a lot.
Speaker 2I like the first one a lot, but then after that James Cameron walks away and it just can't find its footing.
Speaker 1I liked Salvation.
Speaker 2Salvation was fun.
Speaker 1I did enjoy Salvation a lot yeah.
Speaker 2And then you have the show. There's a lot of fans for the Sarah Connor Chronicles but you know Genesis and the third one, I in theaters and going this is fine, it's fine. I mean you don't have like the original cast. Again, it's the whole thing like you're, like you don't have the original kid, you don't have all these people and stuff this is screwed up by showing us the reveal in the trailer yeah, it's kind of like, oh, that would have been cool to find out in the movie this is why I can't watch trailers.
Speaker 2I told you I watched the original nosferatu movie and I'm like I'm not watching the second trailer, even though I'm like it's cool, I'm ready.
Speaker 1Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2But yeah, you have two stalwarts of the sci-fi genre and it's like, how do you grade those in mind? What came after that? Because you have Terminator 2, which is considered one of the best sequels, one of the best action movies of all time. It's like up there with Mad Max, fury Road and stuff. I'll go B.
Speaker 1I gave it a C because, like you said, I think it's just hit or miss. Yeah, the good ones are awesome, the bad ones are terrible.
Speaker 2It's one that should have just stayed put. Yeah, Like maybe a third one Tried a trilogy cap, but James Cameron should have stuck around. That's what happened. He got cocky. He made a movie about a boat with Leo and then he said what about aliens? It's like we already have and stuff it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1Fern goalie no no, no, no, no, um so, uh, I think it's just like if you take terminator 1, terminator 2 and salvation, you have a perfect trilogy of movies okay and then everything else is just bad so I just feel like it's c.
Speaker 2There's a new anime too on netflix. I'm kind of intrigued by that.
Speaker 1I've heard decent things it had a great um arcade game.
Speaker 2That's true, that's okay, that makes my b feel better. Yeah, the arcade game was game was great. Video games Forget about that the ride at Universal Studios, which really isn't a ride, it's more just like a show.
Speaker 1Terminator was also one of those things in my brain where it's like they sold toys for this in the rated R movies. It's like I haven't seen these.
Speaker 2The 90s were a wild time.
Speaker 1I want to buy the toys. Alright Rocky.
Speaker 2Okay, rocky has longevity rocky reinvented itself, spun off, made a trilogy off that and those were good. Yeah, I think the third one wasn't as good as the first two, but it was still consistently quality. For creed yeah, creed three, the creed three movies the only fall off is rocky five. I don't like, yeah, rocky. You don't like rocky four. I don't like rocky four, which is kind of, which is wild but we're like it's the most popular it is. It's the most 80s movie.
Speaker 1It's um it's montage, the movie cory I worked through the first three to get to four and I was so excited my wife will tell you I'm like we're at it, we're like we're gonna. It's, it's the russian guy. I'm so pumped. And then I was just like this movie is just montages and songs and it's, are you telling me, the end is the rocky like solves the cold war like I, just I hated it.
Speaker 2I hate the walls came down.
Speaker 1It was reagan, so mad I hated it. Um, but is rocky, which ones? No, balboa is the one that gives us the speech. It's the old man one.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, that's the one that gives us the hell hard life.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, five's just kind of in there. It's he. It felt like we're trying to pass the torch kind of thing and stuff and it just didn't hit. But even in the movie he just decides like this guy's problem. It was a weird movie now and you say that, but it's like the first one was so like small, like it was just about a guy trying to prove himself to himself, make him make something for himself. But it's really a love story with Adrian. That's really what it was about. And then from there was like it was also kind of the curse of the franchise, like well, we got to keep making it. Rocky's one of the best movies ever seen?
Speaker 2yeah, it's it's top tier for sure, because I went into a thing. It was just a boxing movie.
Speaker 1And then I was like really rooting for this guy. But I think Rocky one through three is an incredible trilogy.
Speaker 2It is. It's good.
Speaker 3I think it's like a near perfect trilogy and you get Thunder Lips.
Speaker 2I mean, based off of how we talk, I gotta give it like an A minus, I guess.
Speaker 1I gave it a B Okay, that's fair, just because of 4. I hated it that much. 4 brings it down.
Speaker 2Like I would have given it a solid A, but yeah, 4.
Speaker 1No, no, no. 5 brings it down for you, 5 brings it down for me. Yeah yeah, 4 just was that much of a disappointment that it brought it all the way down to a B Okay, okay. I feel like I'm giving a lot of this one because I I feel bad for leaving it out because it's so controversial and divisive the justice league franchise.
Speaker 2It has been just bonkers it has for every decent movie or one that's like that was, that was pretty good, and I'm talking about from man of steel, man of steel to whatever.
Speaker 1This latest flash movie was aquaman and flash was that the last one? I don't remember which one, and honestly, it's like a weird franchise they killed but they're like we still have movies to release.
Speaker 2It's got to be an f, it's got to be like for every listen, snyder fans, snyder bros, just hear me for a second. Like for every like decent one. They had to like, they had to go back and fix it. They had to go like well, wait, here's the extended cut like. This isn't really what I wanted and I was even like even the snyder cut of justice league. I will say they go. Yeah, that was a better movie. The scope feels bigger, it feels more proper, there's time for all these characters. This should have been like a mini series.
Speaker 1Honestly but like that's the thing, it's like a four hour movie, yeah, and the four hour movie doesn't even get to our big bad I felt I I felt like that was one where I sat there, went okay, it was worth it to see that version of it.
Speaker 2Like they did hold him back, like I mean everything that happened with it. We didn't take it over him having his child die, like it was just powers that be beyond himself. But, like for every like note where you're like that was pretty good, that was pretty decent. It's just there's always crap that's going on underneath it I'll always just stand by that.
Speaker 1Snyder's an incredible cinematographer.
Speaker 3That's all I'm just gonna say that I just don't think he's a great director I. I think he's just incredible cinematographer.
Speaker 1But then he did make the weird zombie movie that was shot like in a 1.0 f-stop.
Speaker 3Yeah, that gave me a headache.
Speaker 2It's gotten worse. Now he's got the it's not Cloud Atlas, the Rebel Moon, rebel Moon.
Speaker 1I liked Rebel Moon 1. I haven't watched the second one yet it was fine, yeah, so are you f as well.
Speaker 2I I give their fan base like an F minus. Oh, they have a minus minus.
Speaker 1yeah, I'm going to give Star Wars a chance to like be the king of the worst one when we get to it, but, like Snyder, you guys just let it go. Man, it's dead Every year. Y'all still do this weird thing. Like Netflix can buy it, it's like Warner Brothers owns DC.
Speaker 2They're not going to sell it to Netflix. Man, it's because it's not just it's, it's everything that's behind the scenes just made all the movies worse because they suddenly went we have to catch up with Marvel. Oh wait, Now we're going to go do our own thing. So it's just like there's no excitement really about the James Gunn stuff that's going on. It's like it's kind of like a OK, prove it.
Speaker 1Yeah, I got to see it so bad that it's just like the bars low.
Speaker 2But as long as Batman't part of it, yeah, we don't include this we have bat flick, but you know joker, joker, we don't, we don't include this it's not, it's its own thing.
Speaker 1Yeah, they're like just piecing that out, like trying to get it away from it. They're like this still makes money. Um, look penguin, penguin has his own show. What, wow.
Speaker 2Um all right. What's next, now that snyder fans have all tuned us out the way?
Pixar and Franchise Analysis
Speaker 1we're we're gonna end the audible mentions with pixar. It is a franchise apparently the matrix well it's four.
Speaker 3It's four movies and you're welcome to talk about the matrix I'm giving the matrix like a d though.
Speaker 1Okay, marking it down, matrix is a great movie yeah everything that happened after matrix I don't love it's one.
Speaker 2The trilogy is one I will defend, but I do think I mean, the revelations is a weird, a weird thing. I probably should go back and watch it and then the stuff built it was. It was the first franchise to try to branch out where everything is interconnected like the video. You got to watch the video game, you got to watch the anime it's too much work.
Speaker 3It's too much work.
Speaker 2That marvel's learning that lesson as we speak right now. Yes, um, they did not learn from nobody. Called the wazowski sisters and asked like hey, how do you, how do you do this?
Speaker 1they're like well, people don't want to play the video game to understand what's happening in the third movie.
Speaker 2Yeah, so I'll give it. I will be, I will be fair. It's just a b minus for me, so, but that's that's me also liking the trilogy a lot.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's because it's all millennial dark industrial stuff. What?
Speaker 2are you trying to say, corey, that's your niche, oh?
Speaker 1okay, so Pixar.
Speaker 2Pixar is what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1Before you move on, though, I actually just learned not long ago that the Mad Max video game that came out 10 years ago actually bridges Furiosa to Fury Road. You said that yeah, Because that's why there's all these unanswered questions in the end of Furiosa.
Speaker 2Can't do it. You can't get people listen. Tv shows are hard enough, especially when the video game came out 10 years ago. You can't expect people. You want me to go back and play it again just to find out why certain characters are dead or not. There, it's not a good media to require for required listening or reading. Yeah.
Speaker 1That's a lot more than a movie ticket or a Netflix subscription.
Speaker 2Right, so Pixar yeah.
Speaker 1It's a shared universe, it turns out.
Speaker 2There is one ongoing franchise. We're at Toy Story 5 now, yeah, so we could separate that and say that it's one thing, sure, but you're going to count Pixar as a whole.
Speaker 1Yeah, I read the whole theory that it's one timeline, one universe.
Speaker 2Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm counting it as one shared universe. There's a lot of interconnectedness.
Speaker 1There's people with whole Instagram accounts just saying did you notice in this movie?
Speaker 2did you know you see this.
Speaker 1That means that this is real. Someone recently was like did you know, tony Stark invented that big fat white robot from Big Hero 6? What, yeah, white robot from big hero 6? What yeah, apparently there's a thread, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2So anyway, uh, that one's hard because it's, yeah, it's like it's interconnected but it's not an it's there's been no like avengers of it's really confirmed that they're all together. One thing I will say just because then you're talking about studios more like I don't even know if this is, this is fair game, like because then you guys sit there and go well, is disney animated studios like a franchise into itself. You know what I mean. If you're asking me to give Pixar a rating like it's also a thing of eras, like up until, like you know, the past five years, you would probably give it like an A plus.
Speaker 1It was just banger after banger after banger, like they could do no wrong then it got sequel fatigue, then it got sequel fatigue, all right, so so you're like saying Toy Story up to WALL-E.
Speaker 2You're like in pretty much I mean if you're looking at the Pixar series, I'm trying to even think where the fall off, like the boy and the dinosaur or whatever it is.
Speaker 1The good dinosaur. Yeah, the good dinosaur, thank you. Hold on, I can give you.
Speaker 2You've got Toy Story, banger Bugs, life, underrated. Toy Story 2, good Monsters Inc. Finding Nemo, incredibles Cars, ratatouille Story 3 just as good, cars 2.
Speaker 1That's it. That's it, it's 12.
Speaker 2It's the 12th movie yeah, cars 2. From there it's up and down. For every Inside Out there's the good dinosaur. For every Coco there is.
Speaker 1Onward. Coco's the best man.
Speaker 2And then you know these last few that I've seen from 2020 on. I haven't seen all of them yet and it's very hit and miss. Okay and it's very hit and miss. Okay, I'm gonna give it, for, if you're asking, it's like a, b, minus, because it's like it was a tier, a, plus, plus, and then suddenly we dropped off so what?
Speaker 1about you? What about you? Um, I gave it an a, but that's really based on that. Again, I can tap out of franchises, nick you know, when I kind of tapped out after wally and I've seen like up and I've seen brave and sure, um, but honestly that's really like at that point it's like coco I think is the best animated film ever.
Speaker 1And then, yeah, I mean I stopped watching a lot because I felt like, all right, we're just kind of in the same thing. I started inside out, but my wife made me turn it off because it was getting in my head because it's about mental illness.
Speaker 2She was just like I just watched the I started asking questions and my wife's, like we're turning this off. Your website has to. No, no, this is too much we have to stop.
Speaker 1I will say as an addendum.
Speaker 2The Toy Story franchise, I think, is an A+ and I'm including 4. And Lightyear, actually, if you're really including it, I think it's still A+. Everybody seems to hate 4. And everybody really seems to be very split on Lightyear.
Speaker 1More leaning towards like this was Unnecessary and I was like just mad because it said it had a gay couple kiss.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's all I ever. People are just mad. They should just leaned all the way In and had a hardcore.
Speaker 1It's like man gay people exist, people just leave them alone, right.
Speaker 2They're in our movies. I'll raise you one and Quickly to the other, and you may not have seen all these movies, but so Toy Story is like the franchise of Pixar.
Speaker 1Can you agree on that? Yeah?
Speaker 2Shrek.
Speaker 1Have you seen Shreks? I have seen the first three Shreks.
Speaker 2Okay, I really think Shrek 1 and 2 are awesome 3 is the worst, 4 should have been the third one. Okay, because it's just as good. I recommend that one. There was the Puss in Boots, the first Puss in Boots, which I haven't seen. The new Puss in Boots, the Last Star, or whatever.
Speaker 1Last Wish is actually pretty good.
Speaker 2And then, but I think they are trying to get. They might be rebooting, which I think is a terrible mistake, but there's a there's a loot.
Speaker 1I know it's Shrek 5 there is Shrek, 5 is coming.
Speaker 2So it's, it's a pretty quality franchise. I would say, you know, I say B-plus, so cuz I'm not like a Shrek Stan, you know, by any means all right. But I still enjoy it a lot.
Speaker 1So that means we need to get to the proper ones, the essential. We're gonna talk about the essential franchise one hour in guys. Yeah, yeah, just stick with us, yeah because now you're to the stuff you really want to talk about yeah, everyone, all the fan bases are sharpening their knives yeah, because now we're gonna, we're gonna rank fan bases, along with the movies.
Speaker 2We're committing podcast suicide by telling you that your franchise, your series is bad or you yourself are bad.
Speaker 1Yeah, we're just yeah we're alienating a lot of people today, cory oh, whatever, and get over it.
Speaker 2Before we do that nick, though I should tell the people to subscribe and follow us on at Quantum Recast.
Speaker 1We'll do that, but I also have to circle back to our in memoriam. Pete Rose just died.
Speaker 2What yeah, Pete Rose?
Speaker 1So to answer your question it's already started a new three and apparently it's just going to be sports.
Speaker 2I guess has no, no, no chill right now. Death is now coming at sports icons. He's listening to that Green Day song and he's like I don't need to be woken up with September ends.
Speaker 1Forget this. I'm awake right now. Took Dikembe and controversial baseball star.
Speaker 2Pete Rose in the same day Still needs to be in the.
Speaker 1Hall of Fame. You know what MLB now? It sucks.
Speaker 2Now it's too late, now it sucks if you put them in.
Speaker 1Now it's trash.
Speaker 2Now it's trash. Yeah, now it's just a post-mortem. Oh, we feel bad, we gamble a little bit.
Speaker 1Yeah, oh, my gosh Grow up. You know what. That's why I don't watch baseball. Everyone stop watching baseball. It's dumb. Now, corey, hold on America's pastime is stupid. Anyways, all right. So Nick, we're going to start're including it because it's a trilogy, but it had an animated series, has a broadway show.
Speaker 2It's, it's a big thing here, okay, a lots of commercials based around it a because of how they've treated a, how they've treated it be the fan base. And yeah, that's really because because they made the trilogy, zemeckis has said and the other writer were like we don't want anything to be touched by this. When they die, it's going to going to be touched, corey, we're all going to agree when that happens. But so far, so good. They're like no, no, we did that. It was all in the same time frame. We're good, we're done. It's everything we've asked these franchises to kind of do is like. We don't, unless you've got a really good idea, really unique, interesting thing. The story's first, so the quality is consistent across the way. All three. You're, you're a part two guy, I'm a part one guy. We both enjoy part three. It's fun, it's the wild west, it's we're having fun. Cory. The show. I never watched the tv show, but it has its followers people saturday morning thing yeah, and the fan base is not toxic cory.
Speaker 2Not even at all, not at all, not even. I've never seen a toxic person. They, they're understanding, they're like, but the only thing they're like is like yeah, leave it in the water, leave it alone, I don't want another one. Yeah, so it has to be an a for me both franchise and fan base.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah I gave and this is the only time I'm gonna do this in these top 10. Okay, I gave the franchise an a plus and the fan base an a plus. Excellent, like that's the thing that's, it's, it's the one, the reason I want to start back to the future because it brings up the question is this proof that a franchise should be kept small and quit while it's ahead?
Speaker 2yes, I'm sorry. Uh, I mean that's. I guess I should think about that.
Speaker 1But well, I mean, that's the thing, everything we just said. It's a perfect trilogy yeah it had like this animated series. You know that was. You know it's whatever it happened. It went away. Yeah, it has a broadway show. I mean like they still celebrate it, sure, but they, you know, and there's always been talks to the reboot there for a while they're like we're gonna reboot it with justin bieber and he's gonna be using like a cell phone or the guy from stranger things.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that never happens, and I would like to think that she was like back and gone. Man, if we had done that, that would look stupid now and it would be dumb and we're glad we did like end of all the franchises.
Speaker 2Like it is one that you could consider a sequel, a reboot of some form, because you could do. You could do the hot tub time machine. That's the thing. It's been so sacrosanct that people went well, we'll just make hot tub time machine and we'll go back to the 80s and reverse it or like the new. There was a slasher that came out last year. That was pretty much the same thing. What if we went to the 80s? Like it's become a trope within itself of like we're traveling back in time now to see our parents? Basically, all right, want to start with it.
Speaker 1It kind of just seems like it nailed the franchise, and you know, the thing too is that there's no name for back to the future fans. No, there's not one for star wars fans either. But I mean, I know they're there, they have cons like everything else there's whole companies that rebuild delorean still for no other reason than this movie.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, it's keeping an entire like company alive, basically the delorean was the cyber truck of the 80s it was this hideous ugly thing don't say that that no one loved I kind of, and that's why, when they're making this, someone said well, it's gotta be delorean because it's this shitty thing that failed and like the, the car guy got in all this trouble and blah blah. And then it re like now like there's literally companies that are like we'll rebuild them yeah sell them that's crazy
Speaker 1because they're so popular, because this one movie, so all right, I all right. Weirdly, you have to get both Because, again, yeah, the fan base is not toxic and they'll defend the thing to death.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1You know All right, so we got to go to Indiana Jones, which I also think you love. I do, I don't.
Franchise Critique and Fanbase Analysis
Speaker 2I do, but I'm more understanding about it. I've come to terms with it. Corey, original trilogy's perfect about crystal skull. Still, last one was unnecessary. It was fine, but it was unnecessary they tried to logan it, but disney couldn't get their greasy fingers off of it. Yeah, they were still eating off the carcass of star wars and they went what about dr jones come over here, give us some money.
Speaker 2So, yeah, b minus for me. I think like, yeah, we're gonna do this with trilogies one day, because then that's gonna be what's gonna get real hard.
Speaker 2But yeah b minus me, because I do love the original three. They just should Again. It's like we talked about they were all made in this era of time. Too much time passed. We talked about this on our Indiana Jones episode. If they'd had a 90s one, I think the slow transition of him getting older would have been okay. And also talking about the change in media, going from film to digital, the look and feel and aesthetic of everything. But because there was so much time, it was just like this is too much.
Speaker 1Okay, it does look like they're releasing a cool video game, indiana.
Speaker 2Jones. Yeah, let's just leave that. Hopefully you don't need it to get to the next one.
Speaker 1You really have to play this one, corey, for the next Indiana Jones, where he's a zombie, though I think you're playing young Indiana Jones, so it probably just bridges two of the movies. Yeah, I what now? You gave it a. What b minus? What about the fan base?
Speaker 2they're fine, they're not really there's nothing. There's nothing noteworthy other than them just hating crystal skull and they hate, yeah, shia labeouf with a passion. Yeah, I feel like they chilled out a bit when they kind of went. Well, that was, they were the ones at least go. Okay, we were kind of harsh maybe they were reactionary.
Speaker 1We were a little reactionary there. I think we were a little harsh there I gave the franchise C Because I do think the trilogy is all right. You don't like it, Gord. Here's the problem with you indie fans. You ride Temple of Doom so hard. It's kind of all you got, but you're saying no Raiders, y'all ride Raiders of the. Lost.
Speaker 2Ark so hard, yeah, continue.
Speaker 1And you don't really ever talk about Temple of Doom or Last Crusade.
Speaker 2Or any. All three are excellent, I just think. But I think indie fans in general are like raiders, raiders because, again, it was a franchise, that wasn't a franchise, which is all movie franchises basically, but that where it got an oscar you were surprised at that. Like it was not, it did not get an oscars nominated for best picture shocked me, yeah but and there are people that are like temple dudes terrible, it's the worst, and I think they saw crystal skull.
Speaker 1Maybe we were too hasty here, because I love temple of doom too, like I mean like that's why I also gave the fan base a c, because I feel like there's just the one thing they are really latch on to they are star wars light. Yeah, it's just, it's raiders. Raiders will never be outdone.
Speaker 2I think last crusade's the best movie okay, like the one with connery, yeah, um, I just think the answer is like indiana jones should always be fighting nazis and he does in one in three.
Speaker 1Yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 2And then the first, at the very first of the last movie, the Dial of Destiny. You're like the first 20 minutes is young Indiana Jones. I'm like this is what I wanted. Where's Bradley Cooper?
Speaker 1Yeah, just let Bradley Cooper be Indiana Jones. Yeah, so All right, jurassic Park.
Speaker 2Where's Allie Dale? Is she within screaming distance? I?
Speaker 1would love to know what she thinks of the whole franchise.
Speaker 2Minus.
Speaker 1The franchise Maybe.
Speaker 2D, but C minus.
Speaker 1I gave the franchise a D minus. Dang, you hate dinos, though it's kind of the same thing, though Y'all have Jurassic Park 1, and then after that y'all don't really defend anything else.
Speaker 2I mean defending the sequel we lost world.
Speaker 1It's you know. And three y'all hate three and three's incredible. I love three, three's amazing. I will defend three, three's like oh shit some of them can fly.
Speaker 2Three went. Hey, remember how the dinosaurs were scary yeah, man, there's pterodactyls on this island. What the crap yeah, that one's great. That's the thing. At the end of the second one, when instead of the t-rex scream it's the pterodactyl scream, like they made flying ones. Why, why?
Speaker 1are they here? And then I, I like the like the first one of the new era for no other reason that I thought it was hilarious that they actually got this park open.
Speaker 3They did I just I.
Speaker 1The only reason to go watch is like they have to explain this somehow. They've had three incidents, three reasons not to make this park huge money incident cory listen, we've seen how countries and corporations run.
Speaker 2Of course they. They reopened it and it went horribly wrong. It did, and no one should be shocked by that. But okay, the heights of Jurassic Park, the middling of Lost World, the underratedness of three I'm sorry that a T-Rex talked to him in his sleep Okay, guys, okay, maybe that was too far. I think it's fine. It's a dream. And then Jurassic World world. And they just finished wrapping on the next one. It's already done it's.
Speaker 2It's booked it's in the can. It's coming out next year, I guess. Okay, scarlett johansson's in it and apparently they're. I heard a rumor that it's r-rated, which gives you hope. Maybe they're gonna be like, hey, we're gonna make this. If you've ever read jurassic park, the book.
Speaker 1It's violent? Yes, it is it goes hard.
Speaker 2You think about it. We don't have another dinosaur franchise where this was brought up. This isn't. You'd like to read things on the internet. This is something someone brought up. There's not another dinosaur franchise. Why don't we have like an r-rated?
Speaker 1um slasher style land before time cory, there's 19 of them nick cory, stop, stop, cory.
Speaker 2There's one of those and the rest of them are just as bad as the disney. Straight to dvds. What's?
Speaker 1the matter with you, man, there's no the second, they start singing.
Speaker 2in the second one I was like like what is? No, no, no, no. Don Bluth is rolling over in his bed. He's still alive.
Speaker 1We'll see. Death is creeping. Oh my gosh, please don't take Don Bluth from us. Okay, I gave it a D the franchise but I gave the fanbase an A because the fanbase, like Ally Dill, defends these things.
Speaker 2True, but in a healthy way. In a healthy way.
Speaker 1Okay, it and not gonna go with it.
Speaker 2Love some dinos. We all love dinos, except cory in the 90s I didn't know, there was that. You know there's a diagram of like you pick. You pick trucks, you pick space, you pick dinosaurs and there's a fourth one in there and cory pick none I picked like slasher films man yeah, you're an 80s kid, hold on.
Speaker 1I liked like ninja, turtles and power rangers.
Speaker 2Okay, there you go I like color-based superheroes they got their color.
Horror Movie Franchise Fan Bases
Speaker 1You like comics and anime adjacent yeah, I like, I like that stuff. Okay, um and so, um, all right, this is what I brought in nick for me. Okay, we're getting into the halloween time, so I brought in the friday, the 13th slash nightmare on elm street franchise. Because one movie connects them both, we'll just call it alien predator, alien predator really in a lot of ways. You can just consider this all horror movie franchises sure, sure and I'll.
Speaker 1And I'll start here I gave it a B for their B movies. I mean, just give them a B.
Speaker 2You know what that's easy If you're watching them.
Speaker 1It's like you get it. You're in it. You never no one walked into a Friday the 13th movie expecting a Scorsese film.
Speaker 3You know, you're there.
Speaker 2It's like, for the same reason you get on blah, blah, blah. You're gonna see some boobs, a lot of really creative deaths, and you're gonna like be happy that the bad guy is weirdly the iconic thing.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know there's no hero, you're there to see people die, there to see people naked?
Speaker 2yeah, and you're there, possibly a good soundtrack in the 80s, possibly good um.
Speaker 1So I give them, like the franchise as a, b, okay, but because they all eventually jump the shark, go too far, sure, and but I think the fan bases are a plus, plus for these movies.
Speaker 3I agree.
Speaker 1If you like these movies, you're like the people that go to horror cons and you want to meet Tony Todd or the old man that played the fifth Jason and you're loving it and you think this is the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 2And then there's the Rob Zombie movies that people don't like.
Speaker 1Well, that's the Halloween franchise. But that one created like well, we got to do the dark and gritty. Yeah, they kind of brought it back and then, like the friday the 13th, something dune is some studio, that's sort of remaking them, like the new texas chainsaw massacres were like or the I mean gosh that's the most rebooted really. Those, those were more those reactions to, like the saw gore friend, that well, they, they started essentially like the texas chainsaw massacres, like the first horror movie that came out as like a response or no, the remake.
Speaker 2The remake in 2003 was like the first response to like 9-11 and the torture porn thing were horror, it was just grotesque I okay, this is a good, this is a good thing to bring up, because I think, if we're talking about franchises and do they need to exist, I feel like, if you're making a argument for them, horror probably makes the best argument because, like we did, like when we did our merry sex kill of of, uh, friday the 13th you had, it allows for a favorite, because there's always one that, like nails, nails the formula, it does it perfectly, jason lives.
Speaker 2And then there's the ones they're just it's, it's, they're figuring it out, they're not sure what to do, they're kind of throwing stuff at the wall, they're jumping the shark, but you still have like a guilty pleasure. Like yours might be jason x, mine might be jason takes aers, I don't remember what we said, but but it does allow for like different and it's kind of like Mission Impossible. I think that's why that works a little bit like there's a quality level but there's different interpretations. You know it's, it's not, it's. There's no deep lore to Mission Impossible.
Speaker 1There isn't, and that's the problem, because it kind of lives and dies on Robert Englund yeah that franchise is why other franchises have a hard time. Yeah, it's a hard time to put someone in Indy's hat yeah because we're like, but Harrison Ford, you know.
Speaker 2I've been arguing that they needed a new hat.
Speaker 1I mean, I agree but like most people, be like. But Harrison Ford, again the new. You liked the Han Solo solo movie but a lot of people are like but it's not Harrison Ford they've been paying for it. We've been paying for it ever since, and so like the thing with this, though, you can put anyone behind the hockey mask you can put anyone behind the ghost face mask. You can put anyone behind the leather face.
Speaker 1Michael Myers mask you can do it over, and, over, and, over and over again. And because those are the stars yeah and it's not based on an actor. You know the. But I mean, yeah, you're to have a hard time with the Candyman, the Freddy Krueger, the Leprechaun, where it does kind of live and die with, maybe an iconic actor.
Speaker 2And that's. That's the thing. It's like you, there's no spinoff being discussed about a character from Friday the 13th. No, I mean there's nobody that's dying to like Friday Nightmare on Elm Street has Nancy, and so like you could do a show about Nancy, maybe, so Pe so Peacock is doing a Camp Crystal Lake show.
Speaker 1I've heard, but I don't know, and I think I don't know if Jason's in it or not. Yeah, it might just be the story there's potential.
Speaker 2But it's not like. Hey, random dude in the back skin his own show. Which is this? Become the joke of.
Speaker 1Star.
Speaker 3Wars you know, yeah, like there's not.
Speaker 2There's not all these side characters that there's potential to like.
Discussing James Bond Franchise Fanbase
Speaker 1Well, we can really dig into their backstory yeah, I think the reason I want to bring up horror movies in slasher general is I think their fan bases are probably one of the best fan bases. It's true, they just, they just love it, even when it's bad yeah even when it's bad.
Speaker 2It's almost like a compliment oh, they're like, that was good. It was rocky and you can take it. You can sit there and go. This was an excellent horror movie. I was terrified, or you can go. This is so bad I had so much fun. It's almost the only time they get mad is when they do the dark, and it's like they're trying to be serious and dark and they just don't do it.
Speaker 1Well, that's when it's bad which I mean like I think those are great when you do like one-offs like baba duke. It's this really hard movie to watch but, hereditary.
Speaker 3This is hard movie to watch, but it's like cool, there's not a hereditary two and three that we know of so far.
Speaker 1Gosh, I'm not so um, I don't think ari aster has this one. Nick, do you?
Speaker 2I don't, because I haven't watched all of them, because no one's watched.
Speaker 1Christian Taves has. He probably has, maybe Ash.
Speaker 2Gosh, there's so many, but I will say for the ones I've watched. So we'll just go Pierce Brosnan, modern Bond Pierce and Craig, I'm going to give it like a B at least for those. I've watched a few of the Sean Connery so far and I've watched like Living Daylights here as well. But as I mean it's has it's living, for a reason, it it has been able to adapt with the times. There have been misfires within it but and you tend to have there's a lot, I don't really know, of too many toxic Bond fans. Maybe we're just not deep into that culture. I think that it's because they're all english.
Speaker 1That's true. People are cool.
Speaker 2We need ash to answer this question really, ash? Is it toxic to be a bond fan? Are they okay?
Speaker 1if I just over there in pubs just like debating it. Landsby is the best bond ever.
Speaker 2He only had one movie, but it was perfect, damn it we need to just put ash and christian on this podcast and let them have the discussion america's version, or take on, you get the american fan, you get the british guy. They probably just become best friends and people together. So but I don't.
Speaker 2I gave it a B minus as well, and again I give their fan base an A plus, because it just seems like they're just happy to have bond movies it seems like more of the issue like if there's any toxicity, it's kind of in like the legal battles and stuff that go on with the rights to the books and stuff yeah, but that's not's not the fans.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's not the fans, that's just other people. What's his name? Fleming, the Fleming estate, the Fleming estate.
Speaker 2You said B as well. Yeah, I give the fan base an A+ Because I think they're fun.
Speaker 1It's mainly like I'm not a Connery fan. I think Roger Moore was the best, but villains. Yeah, whereas I don't love the Brosnan movies because I think most of those villains really forget about.
Speaker 2first Golden, I was great, and then it's just like there's not returning dividends on.
Speaker 1I like Golden Eyes video game. Everybody does. Besides that, I didn't really care for the movie.
Speaker 2That's the long tradition of Pierce Brosnan.
Speaker 1And then I think the Daniel Craig movies are.
Speaker 2Well, they had continuity. I feel like they trailed off at the end Between Casino Royale, which was excellent, quantum of Solace, which was underrated I felt like it was great and then Skyfall.
Speaker 3Skyfall was my favorite.
Speaker 2And then Spectre and no Time to Die. Just a little unnecessary to keep continuing the storyline. There's a lot of forced stuff.
Speaker 1Well, our joke is that Bond movies is where you go after you win an.
Speaker 2Oscar and I think there's enough save time. This Bond movies is where you go after you win an Oscar, and I think there's enough safe time. This is why we need Christian on, because he and I have discussed this. You don't kill James Bond and they Dark Knight Rised it Because they both came out around the same time and it's like, well, we've got to pay this off. He's not the character that dies.
Speaker 1He doesn't make the sacrifice play in that way, but I want him to canon.
Speaker 2Well, the Craig series kind of screwed that up, gordon, I know.
Speaker 1I don't know why it's just let it be. Once you canonize it we can bring the Rock into it, and the Rock becomes the best James Bond movie of all time. That's Connery's Bond, damn it, it's true, it's true.
Speaker 2Enough little leeway, enough flexibility, enough believability.
Franchise Analysis and Fanbase Opinions
Speaker 1Alright, moving on of believability. So alright, moving on, I'm ready. What's your opinion on this? Because I again, I tapped out of this one Lord of the Rings, and that's including the Hobbit movies and whatever Amazon's doing right now the trilogy is an A++.
Speaker 2You add the Hobbit and it becomes a B+ because they're so bad but the other one's so good. You add Rings of Power, which I need to watch season 2 still, and I rings of power, which I need to watch season two still, and I think the quality is still there. It has there. I have I have friends, cory, that that hate rings of power they they. If there was a place where the toxicness comes out, it's rings of power, because of you know are they racist?
Speaker 1no, they're racist. Are they mad that elves are black?
Speaker 2now they, they have their reasons but, it's, it's I wouldn't call it but not problematic not problematic reasons Not problematic, it's more logical-based arguments and stuff. But they are mad about it on a level. But there is that as well. So we're in that time of the modern time where it's like we're trying to create more diverse casting and stuff and people are getting annoyed by it and stuff. Say what you will. I'm not going to include Rings of Power yet because it's not done, but so far it's b plus, just because hobbit and the toxicity of rings of power brought it down.
Speaker 2All right, you're gonna.
Speaker 1Okay, let me have it I gave it a b minus. Okay, I don't love the trilogy like you love the trilogy but you know, sam white speech I have recited sam white speech at tolkien's grave, you did and so um, but I just whatever they're fine. I actually don't love the books that much um, they're hard read, they're hard reads.
Speaker 1You know um and I've seen the, the first hobbit and hated it and I did not go beyond it um and so, but it really brought it down for me. But you know what brings it back up? I'm ready. The animated movies. Oh yeah, really good, I bring them into the franchise.
Speaker 2They count there is an anime movie that's coming out at the end of the year.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2There's. It's based on, it's a war, the Rohan, and so you talked earlier about Back to the Future, made the TV show.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2I. We talked, we'll talk about them coming up, another particular franchise coming up. Let's talk about reboots and stuff. It's like I would be OK more if more franchises delved into animation or other forms of media to tell more stories.
Speaker 1Kind of like Train to Busan had an animated sequel.
Speaker 2Yeah, like you're not because then you're not dealing with oh, you replaced Michael Keaton as Beetlejuice. You, keaton as beetlejuice, you're not dealing with. Like this backlash people understand, like this is a different medium that we're telling it on and we're allowing and that allows for more stuff to happen. We're not having to pay big bucks, unless you're marvel, to get the stars to be, the voice in this, like it gets.
Speaker 1We get to expand this, the story, without having to potentially sour the rich, the movies as they were okay, all right, I did give the uh lord of the rings fans a, c, and that's just because they get real precious.
Speaker 2They're a little precious and they're starting to become toxic. Times are slipping. They were argued to be one of the best franchises.
Speaker 1They're good movies, but it's just when you get into that and listen. I own a lot of lore books on Lord of the Rings and I think what Tolkien did is phenomenal. It's impressive. He made a mythos for bit for England, whole language yeah and so like I mean it's cool, but like they just get really Pretentious about it. Yeah, it's like you have really cool fans that are like yeah, you know, and Christopher Tolkien's already Continuing his father's legacy and messing things up anyways core.
Speaker 2I'm just saying it's gonna be. We've had this conversation. My theory is that fandoms will eventually become religions. You will have people treating Lord the the Rings like it's literal. Star Trek is a religion, is it?
Speaker 1Or they've tried. I mean Scientology, that's just a religion on sci-fi.
Speaker 2That's fair. It's happening already. It's already happening. I'm just saying.
Speaker 1Battlefield Earth is a religion.
Speaker 2In a thousand years after World War IV, when people come here and find remains of a statue of darth vader, they're gonna think that dude was real.
Speaker 1So that's cool. All right, let's get. We got four more and it's the four, probably big ones. Um, let's start with harry potter that's who I was referring to.
Speaker 2Um, you know, I have watched the movies. I didn't watch them growing up because I was not allowed to, because wizards and witches you know, you know how it is my bible belt buddies, you get it. You understand, nick was hiding.
Speaker 1Harry Potter books under his mattress.
Speaker 2I actually wasn't, I didn't even read the books, Couldn't read the books. I was the good kid. It was more out of fear than it was out of like because I wanted to. But anyway, I mean the franchise. You get the whole Harry Potter storyline and like, think that the translation of those was done well, Like it did really well numbers wise and stuff, but then you have fantastic beast, and that's about when jk rowling lost her goddamn mind. Yeah, and that's when it really started to teeter.
Speaker 1Here's my problem. I don't care that she has an opinion I think she has a normal opinion.
Speaker 1She has a lot of I mean she like she has an opinion and it seems like her thing with whole the whole trans thing and she's really trying to like solidify it and she's like, well, I'm a feminist and I don't like that trans athletes things and I don't like the bathrooms things. It's unsafe, but like she keeps digging her heels in so hard and she's gotten pretentious about it and she's gotten so stubborn about it that you're like now you're just being hateful now you're just attention-seeking and I think that's where she's gotten I think it's just now if I say something stupid on the internet well, because she, she wrote those, she tried to write something different.
Speaker 2That didn't take off. And then they had to make the harry potter stage play and fantastic beasts and then, and then she was like well, we got to turn that into a seven part series because, because that was a dumb decision yeah fantastic beast corey should have just been pokemon for for witchcraft, like that's all it was.
Speaker 2it was just Newt wandering around, you know, finding cool animals and stuff, but instead they're like no, this is about Dumbledore and his gay lover, which we're fine with that, but like, did you need to make it about that when the first movie wasn't about that? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1I forgot that there was a lot of insinuation that they're gay. Yeah, it's. I'm not JK Rowling's, just attention seeking. Maybe you're right. Maybe she's just like it's, kind of progressive now yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2What was? There was even like a couple years back where she was like well, I always saw her money is black. I'm like then, why was she white in the book and in the movies?
Speaker 1I don't know. I don't know if she's ever specified as white in the book. I don't think so.
Speaker 2I don't think there's a true true, uh, literal, like she's caucasian or however, you want to say it I don't know anglo-saxon, whatever the phrase is her money? Anglo-saxon, 12 years old, curly brown hair oh, that's weird that you had to mention that.
Speaker 1Okay, weird flex, but all right, um, uh, all right, I okay, so I'm not gonna lie, I forgot about the whole fantastic beast.
Speaker 2Yeah, it was so bad core that they're just not continuing it.
Speaker 1They've just stopped I thought they finished it.
Speaker 2No, no, they recasted dab there was supposed to be like seven of them oh damn, okay, the problem was is that and this is my beef with harry potter movies is that when you don't have movies, have a trilogy because it makes sense. The beginning, middle end book series like that, like it's it's not india, jones and it's it. I'm trying to find the right words to say this, but there's just not enough cohesiveness of like to work in a movie.
Speaker 2That's why I'm open to the HBO series, because I feel like it's going to live better they're already cut so much stuff that some fans are like man I really wish they had done that or it's like man. This doesn't even make sense because this character and this motivation and stuff. So I do think that now that Game of Thrones for everybody that there's a potential for it.
Speaker 2But again, I think it could save itself a lot of hate and potential problems if it would just be an animated show and it could be like a borderline adult adults watch cartoons now it's not this taboo thing, but like that kind of mature teenage and up kind of level thing, okay.
Speaker 1So um, yeah, no, I gave the franchise an a because I think the whatever seven or eight harry potter movies are really well made. Yeah, my only problem with them is they. There's seven of them, so I've never gone back and rewatched them all because that's a task.
Speaker 2That is a task.
Speaker 1And so they do get a little bloated in like the beginning of the back half.
Speaker 2I'm going to go.
Speaker 1But I'm going to give their fan base a D. You know why? Because they're weird, nick, they're weird.
Speaker 2Like they've confused astrology about franchises. In the first place, probably.
Speaker 1Like it's just like you find things that are like I'm a Slytherin and like that's such a Slytherin thing to say.
Speaker 2What does that mean she?
Speaker 1made it up in a book, yeah, and it's just like that. You get assigned a house and then they've. Now it's like I mean again, I'm not going to bash astrology Some people really buy into it. Sure, I don't, um, you know, and but like some people are, like I'm a gemini or I'm a scorpio, which means this which, I feel like it's all the same stuff people.
Speaker 2People don't like to be put in boxes yeah, but people like to kind of be put in boxes as long as they get to make a box, have a little identifier there, like because it creates a sense of community. It creates a sense of you know whether you're a hufflepuff or a gemini, and and yeah I've had.
Speaker 1I've met two like I was at work one day and a girl I work with and she's a dear friend, but she like saw a Hufflepuff like keychain on someone's thing. They connected immediately. Yeah, like they started like changing numbers, it's and that's and that's the thing like that's.
Speaker 2And I'm like an introvert so I'm just like this is wild on the positive note, that is what in a in a honest and innocent way. That's what fandom should be oh and that's how people can become friends. I see you have a Star Wars thing, a toy, a tattoo, a t-shirt. Oh, I love that as well. It's a conversation starter. It's a mutual thing that we enjoy.
Speaker 1Yeah, I should say that's a positive. Yeah, it's a positive. But when you snap at someone and you're saying I'm sorry, I'm Slytherin, just forgive me, you're like, okay, that's a problem, he's like it's all right there, Corey, it's just a matter of time.
Speaker 1But again, that's kind of where, like, listen, astrology, I get it, I'm not going to bash it, but sometimes it's like oh, I'm sorry, I was a real bitch, but the moons of Mars are, and it's just like I feel like you shouldn't deflect to the planets because you were mean to me. You can't, but I mean, but hey, if that's your thing and you're into it, I'm not going to bash it. It's just, it's confusing to me. You know live and let live Sure sure.
Speaker 1If I yell at you, I'm just going to say it's because I'm a dick.
Batman Franchise Analysis and Discussion
Speaker 2I haven't given my letter score yet, Corey See, let's move on to the fan base overall, overall. But that's also because of my lack of genuine interest in it. I think that it uh c plus. All right, you got a c plus. It's passing, guys, it's passing I gave it an a.
Speaker 1I think they're fun movies. They're just hard to sit down and watch all of them and I again something's wrong with me, nick I love the fourth one and people think it's the worst one. Which one?
Speaker 3is that the goblet of fire? Yeah, that's like the one, like a tournament, yeah that's cool.
Speaker 2I'm like it's cool, it's a cool concept, it's just executions. That was the first one I actually watched too. I like it.
Speaker 1Oh, me too, man. I started dating a girl, and that's when the fourth one came out and she made me watch that one and I kept asking questions in the theater because I don't know why the fireplace is talking that was on her.
Speaker 2I'm like I don't have a contest. There should have been like a lead up to that.
Speaker 1There was time she knew the dates she made me go back and watch the other, but I again, I still. There's just too many of them all right back to the three and done. All right, we have to talk about this one, and it's weird because it's wildly interesting to think that there's really only one superhero that I think carries a franchise.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1And that's Batman. Now a lot of people are yelling Spider-Man at me.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1And I'm sorry, but I just think Batman somehow trumps Spider-Man enough.
Speaker 2Well, you've got Spider-Man, you've got X-Men. They're both getting absorbed in the MCU. Batman's part of the DCU but he's the only good thing about the.
Speaker 3DCU. I don't know he kind of owns it.
Speaker 2He's his own thing. Okay, you can make him do any Superman movies you want and I'll balk at it, but every Batman one I'm going to be like okay, what are they doing here?
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2I would argue that Spider-Man is a decent.
Speaker 1Brought it to that level where we can now start talking about it as a franchise it's becoming like the bond thing, it's becoming like the batman thing.
Speaker 1Everyone has their favorite era, their favorite spider-man it's just weird that the first two spider-man franchises became cult classics like they were. You know, they kind of got pandered at the time. I mean, well, one and two of the toby mcguire's were loved, the third one just kind of tanked it and everybody kind of other people trying to be like no, the third one's good and like no, you watched it when you were three, um.
Speaker 2But and then the amazing spider-man one, it just felt that one felt unnecessary to me. I know there's fans of it, but I was just so it was too soon, like they had rebooted. But now we're in the era of like, where the dcu died and it's already being rebuilt. So so I mean, it's the first time, I think, we experienced the reboot so quickly is my thing.
Speaker 1I think it'd just be hard for me to like grade the spider-man one, because it's just like they are just distinct and can like?
Speaker 2can you honestly grade like tom holland's without removing it from the mcu a bit? You know?
Speaker 1I guess the best way I can say it is, like it's easier for me to look the spider-man and go all right, there's the mcguire era, the garfield era in the holland era with batman. There's eras, but Batman's still the most important thing.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I feel like Spider-Man's not the most important thing in the other three conversations.
Speaker 2At least in the third one.
Speaker 1I feel like Batman has just transcended it and it's like we care about the actor serving the role.
Speaker 2I'm going to push back. I think Spider-Man, I'm going to fight you. I think Spider-Man as a character in the 90s was the big three Hulk, spider, spider-man and Wolverine. Those were the comic big three, like the fact that the MCU had to make them off of there. Basically be in C tier characters because they have the rights to them is crazy. But Spider-Man's a household name, just the same as Batman.
Speaker 1I agree, it's Superman.
Speaker 2But I think the quality it's like we're not talking about the Superman movies.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1We're not talking about the Superman as the franchise, because you had the first two, and then there have been moments other than we now have a movie that threaded them all together yeah and yeah, um.
Speaker 2So I mean really, if there's anything, it has more of an argument of being a franchise than batman does cory but I would actually say, that's my thing.
Speaker 1Batman is just so huge yeah it's just. It's this thing now, where the villains now have their own properties. That's true. That's where spider-man's trying.
Speaker 2Okay, that's a good point because spider-Man's, but they're also owned by Sony and they're almost as bad as Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1It's convoluted yeah.
Speaker 2But yeah, you're right, you're right, batman is the greatest superhero character that's ever been invented.
Speaker 1I just feel like Batman carries a franchise. Yes, it's just a franchise.
Speaker 2He's the American Bond and Bale or Keaton's, the Pattinson's been making a run for it. I don't understand the bat flick love he's barely exist on those movies this.
Speaker 1He has one good scene when he runs to the, to the twin towers, basically coming down and that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2Um, okay, so so Batman? So grading Batman, uh, I would give it because you got. You got Burton's era, you got Schumacher era and now the and this is also another argument for franchises is that the longer they go, some people are like man Adam West is my Batman. That's just how I prefer Batman, fun having fun. Other people are like Keaton's, my Batman. I like a dark man. Others are like now you're going, at least now you can pick Like Schumacher. When we watched it, we were like this isn't what we wanted, this is ruining it, this is ruining Batman. But now you look and go. Well, this is just an updated version of the.
Speaker 3Adam West world.
Speaker 2This is just fun and campy now, but that's because we can look at it that way, because then we got serious Batman with Bale, we got whatever with Batfleck, and now we're getting even darker and grittier with Battinson.
Speaker 1I would argue that, as millennials anytime, we've ever had a negative outlook on schumacher. Yeah batman's is we were just falling to the pressure.
Speaker 2Yes, because as a kid we liked them I don't care what you said, we did as a kid, we thought they were just fine and they were great.
Speaker 1We didn't have the mental capacity to compare them to the other ones, and they were just fine. Then we got older and then and then dark knight or the batman begins, happens. We're like schumacher ruined it.
Speaker 2Even before that it was like uncool to like Batman. Yeah, they become to that point. I remember that gap of time and because when Batman Begins came out it was not the huge takeoff thing. Nobody was talking about it.
Speaker 1And we got. And that's the thing. We just decided that we didn't like them, and then we got old enough to capitalism yeah they're all toy commercials. Congo was a toy commercial. I own Congo toys. By the way, the Jurassic Park score would have gone up if we included Congo in the world but they're not a shared universe.
Speaker 2That would have been a fun crossover.
Speaker 1I checked that it's not a shared universe. We haven't talked about the Godzilla franchise, but oh gosh, I'm just going to know one good.
Speaker 2Godzilla movie 97, right.
Speaker 1My thing is this Just to be honest, I give the Batman franchise an A plus because, weirdly, it's all good. It's just all good, even the Bat flick, jared Leto type of stuff. It's like that's the worst of it. It's still watchable. It's still, whatever those characters somehow are iconic enough that it's just like it rises.
Speaker 2The thing about Batman 2 is that is that, yes, it came from a comic, yeah, but the fact that we also keep, whenever there's a conversation of the best batman, you, you have to talk about the animated show, yeah, like there's a literal version that people are going like that was so good, it's so good that people of movie franchisors like don't forget that one well, people don't even remember that the animated series created harley quinn yeah, which is like becoming the top five of batman characters yeah and like and they well, they created mr freeze's backstory yeah you know, they're the ones that made him like an anti-villain you
Speaker 2know kind of thing who's your favorite bat villain? Uh, batman villain that's hard, I don't know, mr freeze mr freeze is a good one.
Speaker 1You know I'm a big fan of two-face.
Speaker 3Okay, there's a lot of complexity going on yeah, for Because he's also weirdly kind of a tweener at times.
Speaker 1Yeah, that makes sense, and I would love it if they ever made a Harvey Dent show like a procedural legal show that just ends with him getting you know, Batman to the DCU is like Toy Story to Pixar, where they go.
Franchise Analysis
Speaker 2Okay, we can't screw this up. There are misfires but there are still people that go. We appreciate the efforts that's gone into this and you can appreciate it later, but like there seems to be like a all hands on deck vibe with batman well, it's interesting because as a franchise it's it's so big and like it rests on batman, but actually it's starting to kind of transcend batman yeah you know like I mean I there's.
Speaker 1There was talks, there's been talks always of making like a gotham city police type of show well, they tried that Gotham, and then it just turned into emo Batman. Well, yeah, it just turned into Batman with all the villains and stuff like that.
Speaker 2Even though Batman hadn't been Batman yet, you know.
Speaker 1but like there's talks of an Arkham show you know, without Batman, so much you know. The Joker movies don't acknowledge Batman, that's right.
Speaker 3Bruce.
Speaker 1Wayne exists in the world, but he's a kid, yeah, you know, in the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movies.
Speaker 3And that pisses Batman fans off by the way, they're just like can you have this without Batman, but that's the thing.
Speaker 1Now Penguin has his own show and all this stuff where I'm just like the franchise, the fact that you can even consider making a show about Gotham and the police department and it just being based on Gordon or whatever. That's amazing to me. So I give the franchise an A+ because I think even the worst of it's good, I give the fanbase a B.
Speaker 2I'm tempted to give it a B+ or an A- or just an A A let's move on.
Speaker 1Okay. The reason I give the fanbase a B, though, is I think they embrace the chaos, I think they're reactionary, but they usually humble themselves when something works out.
Speaker 3Yeah, that's true, they all hated.
Speaker 1Heath Ledger. And then they're like, damn, that was good, Weren't sure about Tom Hardy.
Speaker 2They're realistic, they react, they go. They're starting to learn like whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's hear him out. Let's hear him out. Give him a chance. Give him a chance.
Speaker 1And so I think, as far as fan base go, they're pretty all right. Star Wars, nick, let's do it.
Speaker 2We've talked about this are we, are we everything, everything?
Speaker 1everything. It's the biggest franchise that's ever existed so far.
Speaker 2Um, man, that's hard, it's too much silence. Um, you got original trilogy, top tier prequel trilogy not as great, starting to get a little love now. Uh, sequel trilogy has one good movie in my opinion. And then you got the spin-offs that are pretty good the tv shows with batman.
Speaker 1It has like really beloved animated stuff yes, yeah, it's like every time.
Speaker 2The thing about star wars 2 is it's like every other show. It's like it set the tone of like. Even if it starts fun, it always gets dark, but it knows what it's doing. I think at it's best, star Wars can be top tier. At it's worst, it can be F tier and it's really down to the fan base. Honestly and like it's a series that has been dictated by it's fans, like we saw the schism happen during the sequel series. We saw the falling off of the faith in the prequels and now they're all trying to be like actually, I loved it all the time, so it's the same thing as batman. It's like no, you, we were teenagers and you were in on the we hate jar jar conversation, so everything was junk after that I still hate the prequels.
Speaker 2So I I think there's a willingness now for me to go like I like there's a lot of it I do enjoy, but there there are many, many glaring errors going on with it. I mean, if you're giving me, if I was grading them right now based off of everything, I'm giving them a C minus. They're passing, but like just everything that's gone on with them, it just it's soiled. The brand, it's just like the DCU. It's like it's not as dead in the water as the DCU, where it's like James Gunn's got to course correct somehow. Like you're on the way down.
Speaker 2So, because it's unlike the Batman series, like with Acolyte, people were hating on it because of outside stuff. Granted, the writing wasn't great. But I've told you and like we talked about, if you treat it like Fast and Furious, where it's just a Saturday morning cartoon, you can forgive a lot of stuff and just enjoy that world.
Speaker 1But people aren't just enjoying the world, so enjoying the world, so this may shock you because I don't love star wars, um, like it's just not really precious to me, but like I gave the franchise itself an a minus okay, because I think when it's good, it's really really good yeah I just I thought it's like mcdonald's fries the original trilogy is the original trilogy it's good, it's just, it's just great sci-fi trilogy. And then the prequels.
Speaker 1They to me they made one cool thing, darth maul, and they killed them immediately but I don't really care that much about ewan mcgregor as obi-wan he carried the trilogy I mean or you know, or whatever. I just don't care about much of that um, but then I I'm a fan of all three of the new sequels. I thought they were incredible. Um, I think I thought all three movies were great. Um, I'm in a rare camp there, but I like them. I actually rewatched those more than I watched the original trilogy. But I think, with all the expanded crap, it's just like again. It's like when it's really good, it's really good.
Speaker 3Or when it's good, it's really good.
Speaker 1When it's bad, it's just bad and it's just like. I think it's just that things gotten so big they just don't know what to land on.
Speaker 3Sure.
Speaker 2They have. We're just like let's tell the story of the people that got the plans. Yeah, that's like this really cool idea. Acolyte, that was the little that's, and that's kind of why. That's kind of why this new lore? Yeah, that's kind of why I sit with c minus, because it's like it just keeps averaging itself out, it's balancing the force.
Speaker 2It's like for the highs of things, there's the lows of lows and it's the fan base. The fan base gets f minus, minus, like they are probably the worst and so, oh my gosh, fan base is just a solid F.
Speaker 1You guys are the worst, just enjoy crap man. Y'all will crap on a Star Wars thing. The second it's announced. You're like Sooner fans you just say you're going to lose on Tuesday for a game that ends on Saturday, and then you're shocked when you win.
Speaker 2We won.
Speaker 1Y'all are like the most pessimistic fan base in the world. You just have to set your expectations.
Speaker 2I would prefer that, though. Imagine if they were like Cowboys. Fans, though, Corey.
Speaker 1Cowboys fans. They're very optimistic.
Speaker 2They are rise and fall with the tide.
Speaker 1Might as well. Just watch the game and see how it goes. Sure, sure.
Speaker 2People aren't healthy when they watch sports.
Speaker 1Corey Star Wars is just rough man, it is rough.
Speaker 2So there's Star Wars. We have to talk about the other star, the Star Trek Corey. I'm not a Star Trekkie, you're not a Star Trekkie.
Speaker 1No, I tried watching the generation and I know I'm saying that wrong.
Speaker 2The Trekkies? We're not Trekkies, but what I have seen? There's actually a debate.
Speaker 1Is it Trekkies or is it Trekkers?
Speaker 3Oh.
Speaker 1Some people don't want Trekk recently.
Speaker 2I mean, I feel like I can't honestly give it, because I have watched the JJ Abrams movies and the newest one, that was the Fast and Furious guy, and I've watched Wrath of Khan and the original one. I haven't watched Search for Spock.
Speaker 1The one with the whales.
Speaker 2I haven't got to watch Nemesis yet, but I kind of want to watch that because of Patrick Stewart and Tom Hardy Young, tom Hardy, what's the one with the Borgs.
Speaker 1That one was solid Borgs? I don't know that one was solid they have had.
Speaker 2In the past it felt like they were a joke for being kind of toxic, but in comparison now I think that's the thing they're the longest living fan base. They're the closest to being a religion?
Speaker 2yeah, but they're also they've been around the longest. So I think that they've. I think that they have. Maybe that's the hope I have for a lot of these franchises. Like people will the french, the fandom will mature as we keep going, because you get it's kind of like batman has started to mature a bit, like they're like we'll give it a shot, we'll see what happens. Okay, I didn't like that one, that's fine, we'll wait till the next one. Star wars has not got there yet. Other franchises not got there yet, but it feels like star trek, like they milled gen x, milled out a little bit and went okay it's weird because I feel like for me it's an inverse, whereas I would call the franchise like I wouldn't rate it high.
Speaker 1But it's also not fair. I haven't seen a lot of it but I've engaged with it enough. Like I tried to watch next generation, I was like I'm gonna watch the picard series yeah I got five episodes in and it's the wildest, weirdest thing in the way it is all over the place. It's just five episodes, man, and it's just everywhere, and I was like I can't, I'm out, I can't do like 20 seasons.
Speaker 2It does feel like. It's like either it's I don't even know if it's an acquired taste I feel like it's like either you're in or you're not.
Speaker 1It's the thing, man and but I will say this, probably the best fan base of any like massive property probably they. Whatever you do with it, they're fine yeah they're just excited.
Speaker 2This is great new get it. It has some things, but it's like, but no, I'm just but then. But they're still like. Um, they're like, yeah, well, they're the way their things are going, it's gonna get kind of interesting well if you think about this, acolyte gets crapped on because a bunch of white nerds can't handle asian jedis you know and stuff like or black you know, and all this stuff, they're just like oh, we don't like this, there's too much of adversity, you know.
Speaker 1You know, back in the 90s you have like I mean well, first of all you start with captain kirk, you go to captain picard, you go to captain reicher yeah, then they put a female in there yeah, they did no one gave a shit. They're like this is great. They're like no one said wait a woman flying the enterprise maybe we're also just ignorant to it.
Speaker 2We're just not on that side of the internet. I just don't think they care.
Marvel Cinematic Universe and Star Trek
Speaker 1I think they're just so like, like nerdy in all the right ways, yeah that they embrace.
Speaker 2think about back, like back in the day when we were kids, like people liked Star Wars and you might have been labeled as a nerd for watching Star Wars, but like if you were a Trekkie, it was almost like being an anime fan or a comic book fan. You had to kind of keep that under the radar, you know.
Speaker 1I think they were loud and proud, though.
Speaker 2They were. That's the thing.
Speaker 1They're kind of like the theater kids of fandoms. You know, Like they're really created to be diverse and we have people now still grabbing about X-Men and being woke and you're like it was created to be woke, you know it's like. It's literally about, like, accepting gay people and all this stuff in society, but like honestly Star. Trek kind of did it first.
Speaker 1You know it's the first interracial kiss, you know on TV you know, and like having a black woman in command on you know, like you know and a thing like that, and like, apparently that's all Star Trek is. It's like all progressive messaging, okay, it's all. Like everyone's cool. Like, no matter what they are trans, gay, furry, whatever, just dude, they're cool. Like, leave them be. They're a part of a giant universe. You go to a planet full of this, you know, and we just study them and it turns so like great fan base. Agreed, can't get into the show at all because it's just all over the place. But you know, maybe that's just my ADHD.
Speaker 2It might be a lot. You know there's an anime franchise, Corey, called Gundam Wing. You may have heard of it, or just Gundam.
Speaker 2I just like robots the big robots, yeah, and there's so many spinoffs, so many different versions and you just have to. Russell had to just go. Yeah, I would go with that one. It's the one that was from the 90s. It was on Cartoon Network growing up and so I finally watched through that and it's kind of that same thing. So you just have to pick one and hope that's the one that appeals to you.
Speaker 1I can't even fathom someone that's watched everything Star Trek has ever put out.
Speaker 2Oh, they're there. I mean, I know they exist. But to me that's how much Marvel content there is.
Speaker 1There is ten times more Star Trek. It's crazy, so um. But speaking of Marvel Cinematic Universe, yeah, we just gotta end with the big one, the biggest franchise we're currently in 12 billion and counting.
Speaker 2God gosh, 41 movies or releases and counting allegedly thanks to according to Box Office, mojo Biggest movie was Endgame. At the US. It made over like what? $2 billion, but on the US side it had the whole franchise has made 12 billion dollars.
Speaker 1Billion, that's like more than a lot of countries have Canada allegedly so.
Speaker 2worldwide it's made there are three commas there 100,000 million billion to this is any game, a 2 billion more water?
Speaker 1Yeah, so just imagine your three.
Speaker 2So, yeah, currently it's a young franchise, corey Corey in a way, sort of Sort, of, sort of kind of, but it's cranked out a lot, All of the things yes.
Speaker 2I mean, if we're talking listen, we've talked about how people are talking about Marvel's fallen off the last five years or so, but that run from Iron man to Endgame. It rivals Lord of the Rings trilogy of like yes, there were some some things like we didn't like Thor 2, we, we didn't. Some of the movies like just didn't make sense. We were like we don't like this movie or anything. It feels unnecessary at times, but there was never like this is bad but I even think, when you think something like a Thor 2 or something.
Speaker 2It's still good.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's still a good movie, it's just not as good as maybe the others it's just still a really good movie. I mean it's just, it's watchable, it's fine. Yeah, I mean so.
Speaker 2I'll run through this Iron man, incredible Hulk, iron man 2, thor. Captain America, avengers. Iron man 3, thor 2, captain America, winter Soldier, guardians of the Galaxy, age of Ultron, ant-man, civil War, doctor Strange, volume 2 of Guardians of the Galaxy, spider-man, homecoming Ragnarok, black Panther, infinity War, ant-man and Wasp, captain Marvel, marvel, marvel, marvel and then Endgame. So 22 movies and there are a few B, c plus type movies, nothing that you sit there and just go. This was absolute garbage. And then you know you get after that and after that it's just again yeah it.
Speaker 1Disney plus becomes a thing and they try to use Marvel and Star Wars to push their streaming service that like that streaming service and they oversaturate the whole thing and it seems like they're pulling back on it now, Like they're trying to like we're only going to release like three movies a year.
Speaker 2I'm like it should be two and two. Two and one, potentially, yeah, two movies a year, one series, one series, maybe one and a half like an animated one or something like I can get and quarters. Probably. You're like we get a spring release, a summer release, a fall release, a winter release, but I'm just like it's too much I still think they should have taken their netflix properties yeah and kept them separate like like as a separate like it's like the street level, uh.
Speaker 3Marvel universe yeah daredevil and punisher throw spider-man in it. Let him carry that yeah stop.
Speaker 1Get him out of this multiverse crap and put him back in just the bronx.
Speaker 2Well, they tried, they're trying to, so we're brook. They took everything away from him and now they're trying to be like. Well, Sony wants a multiversal story.
Speaker 1Oh God, Okay, well, listen, the MCU is one of the things I tapped out after Endgame.
Speaker 2Yeah, you did.
Speaker 1I watched WandaVision, didn't get it. I watched the Captain America show mainly because I wanted to see Wyatt Russell as the bad guy.
Assessing Marvel Cinematic Universe Critique
Speaker 2I thought that was cool, that was watchable. A lot of people consider that one to be pretty bad, really. Yeah, in the time, I think there's people trying to be like no, I think that it was a reactionary thing and that because of the highs we had just experienced.
Speaker 1Wasn't it also like it was very preachy in the midst of a George Floyd?
Speaker 2type of thing, not the best writing Very forced at the end. I don't want to say preachy is a bad thing. I mean people just took a bad like oh my gosh, it's being woke it. It clearly wasn't the worst of the worst, but it was already a sign of like the times to come where it was like a little shaky ground.
Speaker 2Yeah, there were some cool things being done, but it was already starting to show like where they were having to make these pivots, or like this storyline wasn't working out, or, yeah, the george floyd stuff so they had to change things, you know.
Speaker 1So I and then and then I did watch Loki season one and I hated it. I thought it was the weirdest, goofiest, nonsensical thing it's probably the best thing.
Speaker 3That's the one everyone loves. So I have bad taste. I get it.
Speaker 1You have different taste and I said after that I'm done Like I didn't watch any more of the stuff. I just got out of it. I even like started the Agatha Long show. Yeah, you shouldn't have done that crime show you need to watch.
Speaker 2Uh, you need to watch wandavision. I did, I did it just made no sense to me.
Speaker 1I got to the end it was weird and it was dumb and I didn't like it. So um and so, and I and I get like even the movies that have come out have been hit or miss. Eternals was one thing. I hated the doctor.
Speaker 2Strange ramey movie oh well, you just hate sam ramey.
Speaker 1Yeah, I don't like, I'm not a fan, but like, but again, since I tapped out, I tapped out, I give it an.
Speaker 2A yeah.
Speaker 1Because I just consider it from Iron man to Endgame.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1After that I'm just kind of like whatever they're in their own weird multiverse thing and I don't get it. I give the fan base a C. Here's the thing. There's only one reason I'm giving the fan base a C.
Speaker 2Ever since this Deadpool Wolverine movie came out.
Speaker 1The fan base has gotten trying to find all these plot holes in a movie. It's like you're talking about a, the movie where the guy like is self-aware that he's in a movie. Right, it's a comedy, it's a send-up, it's making fun of, it's like it acknowledges that it's a universe that's fictional and not real. And they're like going well, if logan died in this year and he went back to this universe in this year, then I'm like you know what you guys suck? You guys suck now it's.
Speaker 2You know where they're at right now, cory.
Speaker 1We're at the prequel part of the marvel lifespan maybe so, where it's just like people are just taking it too seriously yeah, I'm having a time and I was like that movie was just fun, yeah I liked that.
Speaker 1I liked that movie for no other reason. Then I felt like I didn't have to see eight other movies to get it right, the infinity saga was the original trilogy, highly beloved, but then I haven't even seen logan all right, I haven't seen logan and I still enjoy Deadpool Wolverine. I know he dies at the end, that's all I need to know.
Speaker 2That's all you need to know. I kind of saw it coming, so you give it A.
Speaker 1But that's just because I haven't gone past it.
Speaker 2I will give it. It's just hard. There's so much content to go through. It's just like Star Wars. I'm going to give it A minus.
Speaker 1Okay, that's still fair.
Speaker 2I think it's fair. I think, if they can, there's a lot to be seen.
Speaker 1There's some exciting stuff coming.
Speaker 2I think if you had gone Infinity War you'd say A plus. But I think so much has happened and it's not like they've just crashed and burned.
Speaker 1Why are you faulting Endgame?
Speaker 2so hard Are you faulting Endgame? I'm not faulting, I'm saying since Endgame.
Speaker 1You said Infinity War so I was like, oh okay, infinity War is my favorite of the two.
Speaker 2Yeah, I feel like there's some shaky ground going on and it's that moment in the title reign when you have to really see if the champs Got what it takes to go the distance and they're taking in. It's the biopic, when the fame comes in and they've already reached their high of highs and now they have to sustain it. You know, and they start leaning into the hard drugs and stuff.
Speaker 2You know, like the multiverse, they've got to get off that multiverse and they're trying to. They're trying to course correct. So we'll see where it's at. But I'm tempted to push it down to b plus because of, like, how the fan? But again I think you're right, the fans aren't toxic.
Speaker 2Toxic they're, they're starting to be yeah but they're also a product of cinema, sins world and like, and this Marvel fans probably are traditionally Star Wars fans or traditionally DCU potentially, so they're all kind of the same pot so, but they haven't complete. They have, okay, I'm, you know, at B plus because there is some toxicity. All right, there's some toxic. Like the Marvels was a thing that everybody shat on and it was fine.
Speaker 2So see, that's a posting game I never watched it that was the sign of the time we should have known, the second that Captain Marvel showed up and there was such a toxic reaction to her. Yeah, yeah, b-minus.
Speaker 1My thing is like I feel like from Iron man to in-game, we've always been on some course where we know where we're going. Yeah even if it's just from to get from one of the next Avenger movie. But then even in the middle we see Thanos. Yeah, no, we're taking this long five-year journey to Thanos.
Speaker 2Yeah, if you're asking me Infinity War saga, it's A+. If you're asking me right now, yeah, we're on shaky ground.
Speaker 1The thing is post-Thanos. I feel like we've never gotten legs on where we're going. It was Kang, they were being laid.
Speaker 2But now the real world stuff is. It's like we were talking about the other day. We talked about that run the. Infinity Saga. What was the worst thing that happened? People kind of got tired of chris pratt because they found out he was christian yeah, that was like the biggest scandal.
Speaker 1That was the big scandal.
Speaker 2Now it's jonathan uh kang has, you know, had his whole thing go on majors yeah, jonathan majors, they had to course correct with that. They brought in robert downey jr kind of feels like a hail mary. We'll see how it goes. We're willing to try it out, at least like see like robert downey jr's doom, mainly just doom.
Speaker 1Yeah got me reinvested where I'm like okay, I see we're heading towards something now, essentially before it's all this multiverse crap that no one knew. I can't figure out what we're trying to do where we're going.
Speaker 2Where's the focus?
Speaker 1yeah like and so now I feel like even just that we know the focus is we're heading towards a doom like secret wars thing. I'm like I'm kind of reinvested because I like that. I know where we're headed towards there's it feels I'm excited about a fantastic movie. I'm excited about a lot of this.
Speaker 2This back half of this era, the saga, the multiverse stuff feels like course correction. There was just too much growth, too much expansion. They got too big for their britches because things because it's you can see it in like they're rebranding a bit, where they're like marvel tv. We're trying to like kind of keep it a little self-contained here while it's connected. It's like the netflix shows a bit like we'll pick and choose our moments better like and not make it just constant required viewing. And then the movies it's like it seems like, yeah, they're going like, okay, we're pulling back a little bit, we're all we're really focusing on the movies instead of just churning them out like love and thunder and love and thunder man. You can see the potential for a great movie and it just falls apart because takia watiti had too much power I, I, I, I'm, I'm kind of.
Speaker 2It's a waste, of christian bale.
Speaker 1I thought Thor. I thought, Infinity War is the best Thor movie, in my opinion. It's where Thor is, the. It's the bright balance, yeah it's the perfect balance.
Speaker 2You get the humor, but you're still getting that sort of Shakespearean dramatic level that we got in the first two, I just think Chris Hemsworth does really good drama, and I don't really necessarily.
Speaker 1I think he's perfectly fine at comedy. I just wish you know what it is he was.
Speaker 2Dean Ambrose Corey.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2He said one or two jokes, everybody when he's funny. This is a wrestling reference.
Speaker 1It is kind of like he said a joke in class and everyone laughed.
Speaker 2He's like yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, Not just pretty, I'm not just the tough guy and then like we went to movies too much into that world and I didn't like it to end with.
Speaker 1Nick is and like. I think this is my biggest question when you're talking about the MCU and I don't mean this as a pun, but I really do not know their end game how far can you take this franchise before you have to just say we're done and we need to start over? Well, it seems like.
Speaker 2Like it's not, they never seems like the soft reboot is coming it seems like this multiverse thing from what I'm reading, what I'm seeing again regular guy reading the internet watching the same things you guys are watching it seems like they're building towards the end of the multiverse. The doom stuff, the secret wars thing will tie it all together and we'll probably end up with one timeline that will be focused on from there.
Franchise Analysis and Fanbase Opinions
Speaker 1It's still gonna be part of this universe at some point. Hugh Jackman can't be Wolverine, right, but you can't have an x-men universe.
Speaker 2Without Wolverine. Yeah, well, I think that's. That seems to be the next step, like you think.
Speaker 2That's what it's going to soft reboot into a timeline, into an x-men a lot of roles, at least the x-men, yeah, and then it'll be a new x-men, probably, I mean, and then. So I'm assuming, like your fantastic four will still be there. I think it'll what's going to happen is it's going to take all these multiverse universes because if you've read the comics and you're probably aware of, like the secret War stuff to a degree, it all coalesces into one universe. I'm assuming they'll find some way to literally course correct it and make one consistent thing maybe. Or it's just like they close the door.
Speaker 2They're like there's no way you can get out of this universe. We're putting strict rules, can't get out, you gotta stay in your lane, basically. So I think that's what they'll probably do. And then they'll go this is, and and within that some care like a Deadpool will jump into the main timeline, a blah blah, we'll jump into the main timeline and then and that's probably what will happen and it will create because their universe is merged and stuff Suddenly, x-men can, mutants are existing, so that's probably that's my guess of what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1Okay. Well, now that we've offended, everyone everyone, but then again sports fans. Oh my gosh, yeah, like we've just just. We don't have fans.
Speaker 2We didn't say anything about Kubrick fans.
Speaker 1That's true, but that's just cuz you're all pretentious and suck.
Speaker 2Who else can we insult? Yeah, I don't know. We try to get canceled, corey, let's get this done. Let's bury this podcast writer.
Speaker 1We already did that, already got him. Yeah, yeah, he's beloved. Who's? Just absolutely no one's. You love the.
Speaker 2Spielberg's pretty beloved yeah, spielberg isn't that great spielberg needs to stop, get off his high horse and stop making these self-serious movies about himself and start making et again. Where's? Where's the fun movies, guys?
Speaker 1you don't got many years left. Why? Why aren't we bashing spielberg more for making a movie about himself? Right, you made your own biopic if anybody else did that. What an asshole like oh man, but but I don't know seriously.
Speaker 2So we've talked about all these franchises, great, and I feel like there's a need to wrap it up like yeah, no, I think I think what we're, what we see, is that and it's kind of like the star trek thing we talked I think there's a maturing process of the fan base that happens like because that's probably our best one. It started in the 60s. Basically it's had 60 years to evolve and grow and change and so I think with that comes this idea like you said, like you may be a star star trek og group, you may like this, the 90s series and stuff, you may be the new new series and stuff as well. There's enough to like, pick and choose, but there's there's been enough also that it's not so reactionary of like, oh my gosh, like this is ridiculous, like I hate this, I can't believe.
Speaker 2Believe they've done this Hopefully we'll get to a point where these franchises are more accepting. But I also think it's growing up in the age of the internet. I think that's created a lot of problems.
Speaker 1Yeah, we all got a voice. Now we like to utilize it.
Speaker 2Trekkies had to traverse, had to go somewhere to talk with other Trekkies Corey, I feel like Trekkies, though, were the first people on the internet.
Speaker 1They were making their Star Trek forums and somehow they were cool about it because they had matured.
Speaker 2Corey, they were all like 40 and 50 at that point, maybe, I think.
Speaker 1I'm just going to hit delete on all the franchises I like and just become a trackie. It sounds so peaceful.
Speaker 2It's a simple life.
Speaker 1I just, I just feel like you probably go to these, these Star Trek conventions, and everyone's just really cool and you know, and you know, hang out, even if you're like a next generations guy and you meet like a deep space nine guy. I bet they're just really chill with each other and super cool.
Speaker 2You know, and maybe maybe we're just not aware of it, maybe it is just the most toxic thing on the planet earth and we'll get people just keeping it to themselves because we're not paying attention to them right yeah, we're all caught up in our lightsaber somehow we've insulted everyone. But back to the future and trekkies I don't know how we pulled it off. They're sitting there going like, wow, this is nice actually, I could get used to this. Some respect. Finally.
Speaker 1Zemeckis.
Speaker 2He got into the tech thing like how many motion capture movies can you make? Isn't?
Speaker 1he making that one where we watch Tom Hanks his whole life from one angle no cuts, screw that guy. Oh my gosh, don't get me started on people that like foreign films.
Speaker 2I I will say I'm hope. I I want to say I'm hopeful. I'm not sure, cory, that's my honest.
Speaker 1I don't know I'm kind of one of those people. I just mostly wanted to bash fandoms because I think they're dumb. If you're gonna, if they're gonna like be negative, then they're dumb I think it's just your level of obsession.
Speaker 2Like you can be, you could be a fan of something. You could appreciate it. There's no hate towards that. But when it becomes an unhealthy thing, when you're hating on a group of people when you're not, you're being kind of like gatekeeping. You're not allowing for it to evolve and change. That's when it becomes toxic and problematic to me yeah, it's just dumb.
Speaker 1I think I'm just again. I'm one of those people that I've learned to tap out of things after I just feel like they've told a really good story, sure, and uh. And then if I do manage to watch something that I don't love, I'm really good at convincing myself what's canon and what's not canon I think that's being at peace with it.
Speaker 2I'm starting to come around to that point and I think that's just the healthy. I don't think you're wrong.
Speaker 1I think you're just making the healthy decisions yeah, maybe that's all it is in my world, like tr8r is a thing, and you know he's not really, but he is but he is, he's, he is.
Speaker 2He's here, corey, in my brain. He's a thing In my heart where I'm pointing at, because this is radio.
Speaker 1Yeah, we'll talk about him one day. We'll do a whole episode on TR8R.
Speaker 2We got to.
Speaker 1Because I've written an entire arc for him.
Speaker 2And so, oh, because oh Star.
Speaker 1Wars. All right, I think we got to talk about franchises and grade them and and and just have a little discussion that confused us. Yeah, but uh, that was fun.
Speaker 3I'm not sure what our next episode will be, but we're getting in the spooky season, so I'm going to come up with something fun and spooky Um, and then then we'll get into all your stupid Thanksgiving and Christmas crap.
Speaker 1Um and so and then?
Speaker 2Subscribe. We're still on the internet. If you want to follow us on there atquanrecast on all the social medias you can follow us and join us on Patreon. Just $1 supports the show per month and we appreciate that. We'll try to give you a little swag and stuff when we can, but other than that, keep listening because we're still here, hold on. Let me check my phone, though Make sure no one else died. Okay, yeah, okay, all right. Well, say goodnight Nick, all right, goodnight Nick.