Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years
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Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years
A Christmas Carol - All Time Cast: From Dickens to Modern Adaptations
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Who is your all-time favorite Scrooge?
This episode, embark on a festive journey, dissecting Charles Dickens’ “A Christmas Carol” and its myriad of adaptations. From the traditional to the absurd—yes, we're talking about the Flintstones and the Jetsons—this classic tale has been told in more ways than you can shake a figgy pudding at. So we're dreaming up an all-star lineup to reimagine Scrooge and his spectral visitors!
Join us as we laugh and reminisce about our own first encounters with this story. Whether through "Scrooged," live plays, or animated specials, "A Christmas Carol" has been a staple of our holiday traditions. We also touch upon the endless possibilities unlocked by public domain status, allowing new generations to breathe fresh life into this tale.
From the ghostly chill of future Christmases to the heartwarming redemption of Scrooge, this episode is a festive feast of character analysis and narrative exploration. We compare different takes on classic characters, and celebrate the quirky genius of "The Muppet Christmas Carol." As we approach the tale’s 200th anniversary, it's clear that Dickens crafted something truly timeless. Stick around as we marvel at how this simple, short story continues to spark creativity and conversation across centuries.
And hey, we want to hear from you too—what's your favorite version of "A Christmas Carol"?
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Tapbio
Hosts:
Cory Williams (@thelionfire)
Nick Growall (@nickgrowall)
Co-Hosts (Season 6):
Aly Dale (@alydale55)
Ash Hurry (@filmexplorationah)
Cass Elliott (@take5cass)
Terran Sherwood (@terransherwood)
Voice of the Time Machine:
Kristi Rothrock (@letzshake)
Editing by:
Nick Growall
Featured Music:
"Quantum Recast Theme" - Cory Williams
"Charmer" - Coat
...
Introduction
Speaker 1Welcome, welcome to another episode of Fa la la, la, la, la, la, la la. Quantum Recast, quantum Recast, the Christmas edition we did it, we made it to Christmas, your favorite episode every year it is Cory's favorite episode. No Halloween, I like Halloween.
Speaker 2Got it, got it. We just have to get you some Christmas spirit here, corey, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, which is what we're here to talk about today, because we're going to talk about a Christmas carol.
Speaker 2Which Christmas carol Corey? There's like 500,000 of them.
Speaker 1We're going to talk about as many as possible.
Speaker 2Oh, okay.
Speaker 1There are a lot, even as we so obviously this episode we just want to talk about A Christmas Carol and just the different versions and things like that. But as I dove in, you kind of lift up a rock and you're like, oh my God there's so many, there's just too many. Even me. I was like there's what, there's like two dozen of these, and then you're like no, there's just like a hundred, there's hundreds. There's like episodes, like TV shows did episodes on the premise of yeah, there's a flintstones one there's like a jetson's one.
Speaker 1I probably I don't know there is.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's a, really a one. Okay, all right, the ghost of christmas future is a robot. Oh okay, computer, it's a.
Speaker 1I don't get it man, like they're already in the future and they already have a robot but it's their future.
Speaker 2It's the future future.
Speaker 1Yeah it's better than that, maid right, yeah, rosie, rosie, that's right, but like so, um, but mainly what we want to do because we're on this, on the show we like to recast. We were going to just do an all-star version, since we're going to go through the main characters of christmas carol and talk about which ones we think are best yeah, through each one that have been for the movie versions. But disclaimer we haven't seen them all they're right, because it's a herculean task because it's kind of impossible.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, someone out there is going to write a book one day, but at that point, at some point, the book's going to get like what is it? What are they obsolete because they're just going to keep making more and more.
Speaker 2Yeah, apparently, this and oliver twist is the most uh remade are you serious?
Speaker 1adapted charles dickens. Oh, okay, I thought. Okay, I thought you're just gonna make movies in general I was like oliver twist. I didn't know there was that many okay I mean it's, it's, it's probably up there.
Speaker 2I kept trying to find like a number and obviously, because they keep making versions of it, there just isn't a number.
Speaker 1I haven't even seen a version of Oliver Twist. I've never read Oliver Twist. All I know is about an orphan. That's it. I've seen some versions of it. I don't think I've ever Oliver and Company I've seen one of the absolute worst Disney movies of all time, like bottom tier, like bottom 10 of song cory.
Speaker 2The song's good. I don't care. After that it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's it's a dumb. It's a dumb movie um it's starting real strong. All I know is can we have more please? Sure the empty bowl scene that gets mimicked and everything that's please yeah, that's all I know about.
Speaker 2Meanwhile, there's 130 000 christmas carol. Uh, there's even I mean, it's also split off there's. There's re remakes of it. There are new versions of it, there are like retellings of it in different ways. There's even movies about the making of christmas carol. It's kind of gone. There's there's winnie the pooh and peter pan have also done this. There's the regular retelling.
Speaker 1There's like a movie about horror movie version of oliver twist, because it's peter pan and no, I'm talking about christ'm talking about Christmas Carol, I'm saying with those, there's the original Peter Pan. Winnie the.
Speaker 2Pooh. They have movies that came out recently about the author who was creating the stories. But, they both also have the grown-up story where it's like Christopher Robin grows up, Peter Pan grows up. So we need a Christmas Carol story where Tiny Tim grows up.
Speaker 1Honestly, I'm just like sitting here like now just thinking about how I've never really thought about how many movies are about authors writing something.
Speaker 2There's a Tolkien movie, tolkien movie. There's the A Milne movie.
Speaker 1There's the JM Barry movie.
Speaker 2I'm sure there's a CS Lewis movie and there is the man who Invented Christmas, the Charles Dickens movie.
Speaker 1Right, yeah, he has to do this movie about his friendship with sigmund freud.
Speaker 2Oh with freud. Yeah, like apparently they're friends towards the end. Okay, I didn't know he was friends with freud and so there's then.
Speaker 1That's like a recent movie okay, I haven't seen it gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So but like yeah, okay. So I, and I'm assuming part of the problem is or not part of the problem but a christmas carol, what, what do they call that where it's so old that?
Speaker 2you don't have to pay for it. Oh yeah, there's no copyright, you don't have to pay for it. There's a word for that. No one owns it.
Speaker 1Yeah, and so it's like what Mickey Mouse now is. Apparently, you can just use Mickey.
Speaker 2Mouse, the old version, steamboat Willie, steamboat Willie, regular Mickey's. You can make horror movies around Steamboat Willie, as has already happened. Has it really? Batman becomes available soon. Superman.
Speaker 1Public domain. Public domain is the word I'm looking for, and there's like we can make a horror movie of this in two days. I actually watch Screamboat, screamboat, yeah, screamboat, willie man Next year.
Speaker 2Comes out next year.
Speaker 1Yeah, and this is oh wow. Apparently, there's like a.
Speaker 2From the producers of Terrifier 2.
Speaker 1I don't think Screamboat boat willie is part of it, but like the, the oh, there's the shared universe. There's a shared universe now it's called like the poo verse or something like that, but I actually watched the sequel. I didn't watch the first winnie the pooh horror movie it looked way too low budget, but the second one they put a little more into it tried a little harder it's watchable, but it's still really bad okay, well, they've done that.
Speaker 2There's like a there's a grinch horror movie too, like the mean one that came out. I haven't seen?
Speaker 1oh yeah, okay, has. Is there a horror movie version of a christmas carol? Just the guy richie, gritty, gritty verse uh, they're the only.
Speaker 2The closest thing I know of is that there was. It was the guy. Pierce miniseries which was it was less horror and it was just more like really nihilistic and just it was just real gritty, real gritty when we're making everything great, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1So all right, all right. So, nick, we got to talk a lot about christmas carol. Christmas carol, sorry, sorry, sorry, christmas carol, apologies um, where do you want to start and talking about?
Speaker 2I guess I guess we start at the beginning, like the book itself. Like the book sure, I'll give you a quick little little rundown of it, if you will I read it for this podcast I read it. I read it just on its own like 10 years ago.
Speaker 1I mean, I read it like 10 years ago, but I read, I like I re-upped on it.
Speaker 2Okay for this podcast well, it's a novella, so it's only 300 pages. It's less than 300 pages?
Speaker 1yeah, it's not, it's like, it's like 90 pages okay okay, let's see, let's look anyone who has a whole like a book that look that, that the print is huge yeah so if anyone's just rocking a Christmas Carol on their bookshelf 116 pages. And it looks like it's 400 pages.
Speaker 2That's a lie.
Speaker 1That book's a lie.
Useless Facts Rundown: A Christmas Carol
Speaker 2It's not true. You call that person out on that and just say, oh, come on, but A Christmas Carol. Corey released on December 19th 1843.
Speaker 2Oh man this has been public domain for a minute 181 years ago, corey, in a couple of days from now. The original title title christmas carol in prose being a ghost story of christmas uh, written by the charles dickens in early victorian era. It was kind of part of what christmas is already becoming repopularized during this period of time christmas trees, things like that and so he dove into that and there's a lot of uh motivation behind his upbringing. You know he was, he grew up poor and stuff, but also it's it's a work of social commentary um which you probably are aware of.
Speaker 2It's. You know he had a lifelong devotion to the undeserved due to his own family's experiences with debtors prison.
Speaker 2So okay dude has, uh, dude had a hard life. Um, it forced him to drop out of school as a kid and work at a factory, but he was. He had seen, like uh, one of the mines or something where the kids working at and he wanted. Basically, he's trying to get quote unquote to help the open the hearts of the prosperous and powerful towards the poor and powerless. He's trying to get quote unquote to help open the hearts of the prosperous and powerful towards the poor and powerless.
Speaker 1He's just writing documentaries before documentaries. Right, he's going to write fiction. He's going to write a documentary about how horrible things are.
Speaker 2Tiny Tim has just got the black clone. It turns out, or something.
Speaker 1And so From working in the mines. Yeah, he wrote a lot of ghost stories.
Speaker 2Dickens was into ghosts, which is kind of was into ghosts, which is kind of it's. I think that's something people don't realize or they kind of forget about.
Speaker 1A christmas carol is that it is a ghost story, it is like, and it should be treated as such yeah, like I don't own a book of the christmas carol, I own the complete collection of charles dickens ghost stories, so it's just in there.
Speaker 2Okay, he wrote a lot nice okay, well, apparently, yeah, there was a big victorian like gothic horror was a big deal yeah and like people really leaned into it. Um, there's no imdb scores, so no true useless critic stats, but according to uh, contemporary, views of it no.
Speaker 1Read all the critic stats for every version no no, we don't have time.
Speaker 2Well, we don't have time, cory. Give the people what they want we don't even know how many there are. But uh, you know, uh, at the time of its release, apparently, the reviews were almost uniformly kind, it says. The illustrated london news describes how the story's impressive eloquence is unfeigned lightness of heart. It's playful and sparkling humor, it's gentle spirit of humanity. All put the reader in good humor with ourselves, with each other, with the season and with the author. It's a lot of words to basically say it's heartwarming yeah, what's the modern equivalent?
Speaker 1like forrest gump, maybe, like you just feel good, like I feel good I mean it's also uh, I mean uh, it's a wonderful life. You could say it's like it's not modern man, that's old that's, that's more modern than 1843.
Speaker 2I mean, that's true that's true, that's true. Um, all right, okay, cool, so even at the time it was, it was well received, but, but apparently the first edition sold out by Christmas Eve and by the end of 1844, 13 editions had been released, priced at five shillings, which is equal to $40 in 2024.
Speaker 1Dang. So Charles Dickens just became Scrooge.
Speaker 2Well, apparently he won like a higher quality book and he was the one that paid for that, I guess because he thought he was going to get more money for it. But he ended up getting like 230 pounds only for the first edition which is equal to $36,000 now. Hey, so that's pretty, that's not bad. That's more than I've ever made off anything I've ever made, exactly.
Speaker 1Good job, charles Dickens. All right Cool, also known for Tale of Two Cities and what's the other Great Expectations?
Speaker 2And was the other Great Expectations, the other massive For a dude that dropped out of school.
Speaker 1He just wrote massive novels.
Speaker 2He's like.
Speaker 1I'm going to write about all this, just very, very, very complex novels about the class system in England. I love it Okay.
Speaker 2And that's pretty much what this is right here. Yeah, for sure, it's a bunch of ghosts bullying an old man into giving his money away, which is what we need to do, Cor.
Speaker 1We need to bully people.
Speaker 2Bully people into giving away their money.
Speaker 1You know sure, Recent events have shown that there are scary things going on.
Speaker 2I disagree with recent events.
Speaker 1I think it's still not necessarily the right path, but I would rather three ghosts visit yeah we just need to get some tech guys.
Speaker 2We need to get some YouTubers to just go haunt A nice haunting Corey.
Speaker 1Donald Trump just needs to be haunted.
Speaker 2By George.
Speaker 1Washington, abraham Lincoln and a nice haunting cory, not trump, by george washington, abraham, lincoln and kennedy. That's a good man.
Speaker 2Someone write that there's I think there was an snl sketch that where he was it was like a christmas carol but he doesn't get redeemed because he's donald trump at any point?
Speaker 1does he be like?
Speaker 2I actually don't have money anymore, I'm I'm bankrupt turns out I really needed to win this election, pretended to have a lot of money okay, so anyways, um so okay, I, I uh, what's the first version you ever saw this? The first version I've ever seen. Yeah, or? What's your first engagement with a christmas carol, I mean it was kids shows like we were talking about, like episodes of tv. I mean, probably it's gonna be mickey's christmas carol from the 80s release or it's, or it's probably muppets.
Speaker 1I feel like if you're a millennial, it's those two. Yeah, it's either a muppet or mickey mouse, right um doing the christmas.
Speaker 2Both quality versions, though incredible versions, no for sure um, mickey's should get a lot of uh, a lot of praise just for being condensing it into a short. Yeah, I mean it's 30 minutes or so but yeah, like everything, it doesn't feel rushed by any means. We kind of take a lot of the love out. Yeah, yeah, I do, I was.
Speaker 2I was gonna say that they do a decent job, kind of shortening his whole story with bell and stuff and like placing daisy duck there, like it's effective still no, for sure they do a good job.
Speaker 1Um, yeah, I'm gonna have to say the same. It has to be like those two versions for me. Um, I think as you get older you start diving into other versions or you know, newer versions come out and you just kind of get into them. I would have also seen scrooged at a very young age okay but I'm honestly not sure. The first time I saw scrooge that I realized it was a christmas carol.
Speaker 2I probably just thought it was a movie it didn't connect the dots later in life because they don't use any of the names right, yeah, well, because I didn't watch scrooge, I think, until college, when we lived together. I think that was one of the first times I watched it, which we have done an episode on scrooge, we have it was from season one.
Speaker 1Our only thing we've ever done that's christmas carol related true, true, true. For all I know, we're repeating everything that we said on that episode I don't think so.
Speaker 2Okay, I don't feel like anything's being read right here, dived into uh a christmas carol.
Speaker 1Um, so a christmas carol. It's interesting. I was watching a lot of versions that I've never seen yeah uh in preparation for this episode same same and uh, I was watching one with my wife and then we also saw a play of it um in dallas we saw. Like dallas, they do a yearly um version of the christmas carol.
Speaker 1I guess I've been doing it for like decades at this point nice um, and we happen to be in dallas for, uh, my wife's birthday and I just saw that they were doing it for like decades at this point. Nice um, and we happen to be in dallas for, uh, my wife's birthday and I just saw that they were doing it. So I said, hey, let's go see this. Um, and we watched it, and so I've seen a lot of christmas carol in the past few weeks yeah um, kind of doesn't get old.
Speaker 1But my wife even does this thing. You know, sometimes because my wife's not a creative, she's very analytic or analytical minded and stuff like that, and she I'm like a, I'm like a thing, I'm like a freak to her, because I'm a creative, so she'll be like. So we were talking about christmas, carol, and she's like what versions do you like? What do you not like? What do you like that this play did, that you know that you haven't seen in other versions and stuff like that, and she's like what would you change?
Speaker 1and I was like that's kind of a loaded question because, nick, I think this might be a perfect story go on I don't know it just really I don't know. I mean, like I know people have added, they've they've switched things around. There's all these little minor changes to it, but other than that it's kind of a perfect story.
Speaker 2I mean structurally. It's really well put together because like you have massive arc.
Speaker 1Yeah, the main character changes he's.
Speaker 2He definitely goes from a clear you clearly establish dude's bad to dude's good and not only is this change like affect him, it affects everything around him yeah which is a lot of the times gets missed.
Speaker 2And a lot of times we just see a character get better, but we don't necessarily see that affect everyone around him and weirdly, like because in the first act you establish the world, you establish him as who he is and then, through even the ghost of Christmas, past and present, you're seeing, like, why he is the way he is. Yeah, present to future.
Speaker 1They do a good job at that Not only they establish that he's a bad dude, that Scrooge is a dick, but they do say but it's justifiable on some level. To a degree, yeah, like this kid got left at school. It's not in the book but there are versions, or actually maybe it is in the book they switch the ages of him and his sister I know. Yeah, but I can't remember if it's in the book or not, but some versions allude to the fact that his mother died giving birth to him Right.
Speaker 1And therefore that's why his father hates him and his father's like a drunk.
Speaker 2That might have been a switch, like they did, I think, in like the 1951 version, just to create more sympathy for him. Yeah.
Speaker 1And I think in that same version which the play I saw in Dallas seemed to lift from the 1951 version, the most the one with Alistair Slade.
Speaker 2Yeah, the one with Alistair's sleep.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, and so because they also alluded to that fan dies giving birth to Fred.
Speaker 2Yeah, and that's why he's kind of got some animosity towards Fred.
Speaker 1That he's just kind of creating a cycle, which but that's what I'm saying, whether that's in the book or not that's a good addition to a story.
Speaker 2Sure.
Speaker 1It created like something you know, and so I was kind. Think you, most of these changes add depth to some characters because it's a short novella.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1But other than that, just the story in and of itself is perfect. You do get to see why Scrooge is the way he is, why it's unfortunate that he became the way he was.
Speaker 2But then we get this cool arc at the end. Yeah, and it's, I would say, simple in nature, but it does it very well and effectively. That's why things like the Mickey's Christmas Carol, the cartoon episodes of shows, can do it all in 30 minutes, because it's structurally set up like that, even though it's written, I believe, in like five acts or something.
The Three Types of Christmas Stories
Speaker 1Yeah, it's still very easy to adapt to a three-act structure that TV and movies love, and so and I'll say this the most impressive thing that A Christmas Carol accomplished was it created its own genre of Christmas. It did. It's Dickensian and we have lots of Dickensian Christmas things, which means no Santa, no Jesus.
Speaker 2Yeah, but what qualifies as a Dickensian?
Speaker 1Well, essentially a change in character based on the Christmas season. Okay, so some supernatural potential elements, dickens creates the idea that Christmas is its own spirit Almost you know he kind of creates the idea of the Christmas spirit this wonderful time of giving right and being selfless. He kind of like takes it back from Santa. Who's all about getting shit Right? And then but then he also doesn't play too hard, other than just kind of like a Church of England level idea of Jesus and God. He doesn't really add that.
Speaker 2That's not really part of the story.
Speaker 1Jesus doesn't show up and take Scrooge around.
Speaker 2There's allusions to the afterlife, to damnation and stuff, like, obviously, with Marley and the ghosts that pop up outside the window and then even at the end when he sees the tomb, and a lot of versions are just basically like hey, there's a giant six hole, that which leads to hell, basically. But not to mention too like around like eight, like the Victorian era of England, you have a lot of poverty and the church not doing anything. So people kind of like weren't huge on the church at the time.
Speaker 1You know the church of England at the time and so like there's a. That's probably one of the reasons Dickens didn't just go. Well, what if Jesus just shows up and tells? Then we round this out to like going back to the birth of jesus and it's all being about salvation, you know and redemption.
Speaker 2He could have done that because I think that's the weird thing. It's like, because it's it's he. Like you said, he created this idea of the spirit of christmas. Yeah, like, not necessarily a a thing, a person, whatever, a ghost, but like the idea of like carrying the spirit, the energy of like goodwill and stuff and personifying it or really attaching it to this one holiday.
Speaker 1Yeah. So I mean like, okay, you have like the Tim Allen verse of Christmas movies. He has the Santa Claus. Those are Santa Christmas movies.
Speaker 2It's all about the Lord Santa. So basically we got Santa Corps.
Speaker 1Yeah, and then he has Christmas with the Kranks, which is Dickensian.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1All the Christmas crap's in it. Okay, yeah, you know, okay, you know, I mean like you see santa and all this and stuff like that, but it's really about a dude who wants to skip christmas because he just wants to selfishly go on a vacation selfishly listen to being okay, don't get me wrong I in most christmas movies I actually side with the dad like pre-christmas spirit. I'm like jake lloyd.
Speaker 2The neighbors were the worst part of that. They were like why, how could you not put up your christmas together at the end, nick, and like you, know, help the dude out of a bind.
Speaker 1Dude, you're right. You're right, it's. It's a good movie. Like they're insane.
Speaker 2At first, I made my mom watch christmas with the cranks this year for the first time ever and she's rooting for this couple to go on the cruise the whole time that's what I'm saying like she hates these neighbors and she hated the ending. That's the take. I think that's the take we all took from it was just like these neighbors suck until they needed them because and then yeah, but then it turns into a Dickensian Christmas movie. The spirit of Christmas takes over. Yeah.
Speaker 1You know, and Tim Allen sees like the importance of community and like you know what Christmas is really about.
Speaker 2Right, right, you know it's not a cruise.
Speaker 1It's about, you know which is wild that that's actually based on a John Grissom novel.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, okay, it's called Skipping Christmas. I own it.
Speaker 1Okay, ranks is okay.
Speaker 2So just to recover our initial uh argument here that what constitutes a christmas movie is that we've got santa core, which is just all things santa and his lore yeah, anything built in there.
Speaker 1Yeah, you have like the santa claus and there's literally like a movie called santa.
Speaker 2But you could have. Like rudolph frosty goes under there like anyone that's attached.
Speaker 1Yeah, santa core, if you got a song written about you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's your santa core and then we got, and then we got. Uh, we'll call it bible core yeah, which is just, which also has a lot of songs, yeah nativity lots of songs.
Speaker 2Uh, you know angels, we've heard on high all the good stuff, anything. Veggie night is an absolute banger.
Speaker 1Yeah, it goes in, yeah so I'm probably top christmas song of all time. It, it, it hits but like it's the build but it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's all the nativity, like you know, and so like that so then you have Dickensian, which you could argue is kind of the start, very, very early start, of like the modern Christmas story really it's a wonderful life. Is Dickensian yes.
Speaker 2I mean there's an angel in it yeah, but it's still Dickensian well, I would say like, whether it's supernatural forces or not, some kind of above normal situation, heightened situation for someone to go through a transformative purpose. Jingle All the Way is the same way.
Speaker 1Nick, die Hard is a Dickensian Christmas movie, you are correct. So just so everyone knows. And everybody gets all bent out of shape about it. It's.
Speaker 2Dickensian, we are a pro. Die Hard is a Christmas movie podcast.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, pro that, yes, and stop showing the edited clip of Bruce Willis saying it's not. He's just making a joke about how it's a Bruce Willis movie.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1He's not being serious, so stop cutting off the end of that comment. Well, bruce Willis said it wasn't a Christmas movie. You?
Speaker 2know what man.
Speaker 1Bruce Willis doesn't. Don't be nice, be nice. Yeah, I gotta be nice now. Yeah, be nice.
Speaker 2I gotta be nice now To really just to silence that. And why Okay, we've always talked about it has Christmas songs, it's set at Christmas. It takes place during Christmas Eve.
Speaker 1You couldn't really put it. There's so much Christmas motifs in it.
Speaker 2Yeah, so many motifs.
Speaker 1The guy writes ho, ho ho, I have a machine gun. He didn't have to be snarky in a Christmas.
Speaker 2And usually people's arguments are like well you could set it at any other holiday use. It's also a motivation, because why does Bruce Willis' character, John McClane, travel cross-country to go visit his family? You might do that for 4th of July, but you have to do it during Christmas.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's Christmas. He's spending Christmas with his children. It's the most logical thing, his marriage is falling apart and then, through just this horrible incident that takes place on Christmas, his marriage is saved.
Speaker 2Right exactly Until part three, and he realizes how important his family is until part three, and you know why.
Speaker 1You know why, in part three, that his marriage is falling apart. I don't. It takes place in july oh, there you go.
Speaker 2There's no christmas now and we've talked about this on our diehard episode, which you can also go listen to is that diehard one is a christmas movie, diehard two not a christmas movie. It's a movie that takes place at christmas. It's a winter movie.
Speaker 1There's a difference, distinct difference it takes place at christmas, but there's no dickensian change right in heart it's just action movie it's just hey, some terrorists are taking over this airport and john mclean's got to go to work right, that's all it is.
Speaker 2That's all it is. There's no, there's no journey. Even macaulay culkin's uh home alone is dickensian yeah, it's dickensian he's a he's spoiled brat who wants everything to himself his family disappears.
Speaker 1Learns the value of family sick of like. Learns the value of family, yeah, and has to take out.
Speaker 2You know, marvin Marvin.
Speaker 1Harry, yeah, yeah, for sure, so it's good.
Speaker 2Yeah, three, three categories guys.
Speaker 1But that, my point being that Christmas Carol created the idea of the Dickensian.
Speaker 2He kind of took I wouldn't call it mythos, but just concept that there's a specialness to the holiday that has a quality. It's it's borrowing the qualities of redemptiveness, redemption, things of that nature and and kind of. It is also kind of like the mirror opposite of the santa stuff, because while santa, santa core, santa claus story stuff isn't necessarily about capitalism and presence and stuff, it's built into it like that's where it comes from.
Speaker 1You know, it's like oh, if you're good, saying we'll get you gifts and stuff and like and like and to credit, like charles dickens as a writer and like him unintentionally creating something called the kensian um it's. It's very much like he wrote something to be universal, yeah, by kind of shying away from a religious side of it and shying away from, like, the santa tradition that was coming in at the time.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know like yeah, we had santa, we had trees and all this stuff and this ideas, but like to kind of get away from that and to like find a middle he said we're not gonna make this about christmas, the holiday we're not gonna make about this christmas, the uh birth of jesus sure he said let's write it to where. Whether or not you celebrate either of those things, this is a story for you. It's very much Tolkien writing Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Lord of the Rings is not by any means Tolkien sitting down saying I'm going to write this allegory to the Christian faith.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1He said I'm going to write a fantasy novel and chances are my Christian faith is just going to come out.
Speaker 2That was his whole. Thing.
Speaker 1Yeah, he's like.
Speaker 2I, he didn't make a talking. Jesus lion is what you're saying. Yeah, he didn't make Aslan.
Speaker 1You know, CS Lewis could not do it, he tried.
Speaker 2He tried. Tolkien berated him for it, but he continued. He pressed on.
Speaker 1So yeah, cs Lewis was a better nonfiction writer.
Speaker 2Court let me ask you before we move forward. So you've talked about how you believe it's a perfect story. We've dived into that a bit as many different ones as we possibly could at this point in time, and I'm sure there's more. They're there. Yeah, I would like to see, and maybe the audience can tell us or comment for us or slip into our dms and let us know if they know.
Speaker 2But the fact that this is a ghost story, yeah I need like a proper like horror version of this, not so much that like we're going to lean into like the modern schlock of horror.
Speaker 2But like give it that, give me the nostradont nosferatu version that we're getting this year. Like I don't I haven't seen that movie yet but like kind of more about the vibes, more about atmosphere, more about make. Because like, growing up, like even the muppet, christmas carol, like when they had the ghosts, like they were creepy, they were scary to it to an extent. Yeah, like they, they did not pull back because initially they were like we're just gonna have gonzo and fozzie and miss piggy or whoever scooter play the ghost. And then they're like no, let's take this seriously, and like their creations are actually some of the most like, at least imprinted on my mind and a lot of millennials mind, like that's what the ghost of christmas, past and future look like why can't I think of the ghost of christmas past and muppets?
Speaker 1the?
Speaker 2past, is the little girl that's floating looks like she's underwater. That's's right, yeah, but she's a flame because it's supposed to be like a flame.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's supposed to be a flame that's ageless and she's kind of like a flame, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2But in the Jim Carrey one it's like it's. It's it's probably the most accurate to the portrayal with the flame like a living flame, yeah, like a living flame, and it yeah, closest to the original story, for sure yeah because some of them, even like the mickey, one will pull back on those horror elements like you're not getting. Remind me again the two children that are underneath the ghost christmas presents, cloak, want and pestilence yeah you don't get that because just because it's, it's more creepy and stuff, so it doesn't work.
Speaker 2In a disney format, yeah, but like I know there are versions that have it and I'm the jim carrey one has a lot of those elements and so I think, like a live action it's. It's the same argument of like we need a good, like solid version of Robin modern, solid version of Robin Hood. We kind of have those with Peter Pan's. You don't need one at the moment. There's tons of versions of that. But I feel like you could get a really solid like big budget Christmas Carol ignorance and want ignorance.
Speaker 1Yeah, I was like, it's not pestilence, that's one of the four horsemen. Oh sorry, sorry, ignorance in one, got it, got it okay. Um, yeah, no, I think that, like, like I, I do not know why there's not like a traditional horror version of this, considering, like I said, the horror movie yeah, we're blumhouse a24, somebody can we make? Public domain horror movies yes so you heard it here first um, what about that movie that just like uh, it's a wonderful knife, was that like? Was that a christmas carol thing?
Speaker 1oh, it's, I'm having to remember we we had a long conversation about how uninspired the mask was oh, it's just like the blank white face. Yeah it's just boring and it's a dumb title for a movie. It's a wonderful knife 2023.
Speaker 2Uh, horror comedy it's, uh, it's a spin on it's a wonderful life okay, well, I guess I should have taken that from the title. Instead of the lead character recognizing his previous good deeds, the character discovers how many deaths they have prevented in their town.
Speaker 1like the main character, Interesting, okay, but I don't know. I just maybe the reason you can't have a horror movie version of this is because there's a redemptive ending man.
Speaker 2Well, that's what I mean, though, is like the best versions tap into that horror element, so that not only does Scrooge seem unredeemable, but like his situation seems so treacherous and so like downhill so fast, like you almost want to believe, like there's no way this guy can be redeemed, especially given the fact that no way this guy can be redeemed, especially given the fact that and I think, having more ghostly, more horror element things going on, just it would be fun, I think. But it's definitely a balancing act.
Speaker 1You would have to do something weird like Scrooge is a serial killer and past takes him to past victims. Present takes him to the girl currently locked up in his basement. I just think future takes him to future victims.
Speaker 2See, I think that's the blumhouse thing and I think that's the mistake. I think I think, again, nosferatu is like the, the tone of that that we've seen so far, maybe. I know it's probably gonna be very edgy and like edgy and like a we're pushing boundaries.
Speaker 1It's really good. Same same too. Yeah, that's the christmas movie I'm looking forward to. Other than that, all I can think about is just like a krampus style movie, but instead of toys and and santa core monsters it's just the Christmas ghost trying to kill them. Sure, and so.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think that's. I don't think, I don't think you have to like make it a slasher by any means. I just think make it scary.
Speaker 1You want a really gothic-y horror movie. I just want some gothic-y horror. Okay, you just want like a gothic-y yeah, a good, solid gothic horror version All right that like, not a mini series like yeah, you want something that can go r.
Speaker 2Yeah, I want something a little r that go big budget.
Speaker 1So, like ghost christmas, future's horrifying the christmas like albert finney did in the 70 version that was why I watched that this afternoon and like a albert finney I'm, I know a lot of people.
Speaker 2What I was reading about is, like most people don't like this and I'm sadly, I agree with them, because he is like a character is a cartoonish version of Scrooge.
Speaker 1So I learned something this Christmas while watching all these versions.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1But like everything there's an exception. I think it's weird a little bit that the Muppet Christmas Carol is kind of universally the most beloved version of this movie. Yeah, because it weirdly is, it tops most lists that I read and that's by like non-millennials. Yeah, just saying this one works.
Speaker 2I believe, like the, either the london museum or whoever is kind of looking over a lot of this charles dickens stuff said like this is the closest version to it that they had seen so far, because they use the prose from from the original book novella, and then having gonzo play, charles dickens literally just inserts the narration by itself of all the versions I see and I think 2009 is the closest yeah to the book.
Speaker 1Um, but again, I mean, I'm not a historian. I think it does, I think it has like.
Speaker 1You don't have elements like when marley comes to visit and he comes out the window and you just see tons, thousands of ghosts, and that's horrifying, and that's terrifying and then, like we said, not, not pestilence, but uh ignorance and want the more grotesque things and are in the jim carrey version um and so, uh, I love that we call it the jim carrey version the robertson mccherry and the muppets are currently holding the title for best versions of the christmas carol and a lot of people pointed to the 1951 version.
Speaker 2But it's just, it's the black and white tradition it's. It's a good version yeah, I think it holds its place, for sure but back to my point, the thing I learned about myself, nick.
Musical Adaptations of a Christmas Carol
Speaker 1But I do think the muppets do it right. I don't like musical adaptations of the story. Sure, I didn't like the albert finney songs. They went on forever the scrooge 1970.
Speaker 2Yeah, albert finney version.
Speaker 1I didn't like it. It was really long um there's gotta be catchy there was another version of the musical. Oh, like the play I saw saw was a musical, I hated it.
Speaker 2Okay, and and that was more like they didn't write original music, they just tried to cram christmas carols like very oblongly into it, like I feel like that would have because we did a version in college and I liked that one because it uses the pros and it allowed everyone, like it was more told by by group, by by ensemble. It wasn't just a narrator, it's like different people were coming in to tell the different lines and stuff, or the characters would say the lines. Obviously, but I do it's kind of. Yeah, I feel like if you're gonna put music in it, it has to be like you just have carolers or people singing and it's a transitioning at the piece or set change type stuff.
Speaker 1But when you're doing like a movie, your muppets christmas carol is probably the one that has the best songs yeah, no, those songs are good like they don't suck, they're pretty good and so like, but I I pretty much learned that I don't like other musical versions of this.
Speaker 2Kelsey grammar has a musical one I saw that didn't love it okay didn't love it, did not like the songs there is also the 2023 movie that came out last year with gosling not gosling ryan reynolds and will ferrell, I haven seen it. It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1Is it a Christmas?
Speaker 2Carol, it's a version. It's like a new spin on it. It's a whole thing we take too long to get into it. I would, if you have time, give it a shot. I'm not going to say any more than that.
Speaker 1I'm almost 40. I'm running out of time.
Speaker 2Okay, well, try one more time. I'm running out of time for Will Ferrell Before you lock in all your movies and go these are my movies.
Speaker 1I'm just going to re-watch these until I'm dead, so, but okay, I did learn. I don't love the musical versions of this but the Muppet Christmas Carol is an exception.
Speaker 2The songs don't suck, it's also the Muppet like you're not going to be that mad about a Muppet singing but they also sing catchy songs. Right, they were. They were a normal length. It wasn't like there's a 10 minute version. It's like it's oh my gosh, let's let's okay, let's go.
Speaker 2But can we talk about the trip to hell that he goes on like they might as well just kind of call the scrooge goes to hell like the jason goes to hell of the series because and it's a weird 1970s hell like a wild version yeah, because he gets locked in a room, you know it's, it's the, it's the, it's a proper, you know Dante's Inferno type hell because he's being, his punishment is tied to his same situation because he's basically in a freezing room doing the same work for Satan. I guess they don't know that Bob Cratchit was doing for him.
Speaker 1And that would be one of those things where I would say that's a misstep when someone tried to add something. Yeah, you know like again, like for better or for worse. Know, like again, like for better, for worse. So I've seen things that I'm like this makes the story better. And I've seen things that are like because to me hell is like okay, you brought jesus, kind of into it you kind of gotten it off the track of this universal thing to where, like I mean like technically, in the christian faith, we don't really talk that much about ghosts as an afterlife right.
Speaker 1You know, and this is like not look, jacob marley's punishment is in hell.
Speaker 2It's to walk around the earth carrying all these boxes around and wanting to help people, but he can't. It's, uh, the 51 version. I watched today, the albert finney one. Right, or is it? No, that's that's alistair alistair, but his uh marley was pretty. The way that they introduced him was the slow tyrannosaurus rex in jurassic parkway, where you hear the chains being dragged and before you even see him, and then the door kicks open. You don't even see him yet and I was like that's pretty effective yeah, no, that was pretty good.
Speaker 1Um, what else can we say about this?
Speaker 2that it's somehow. Yeah, even though you watch multiple versions of it and they're using a lot of the same lines, there's always. It's always interesting to watch them because you're trying to find, like, okay, what did you do differently or what did you like? Now, the miniseries fx show with guy pierce, it's kind of doing what you're talking about. It's like it.
Speaker 2He was trying to add too much and it was modernizing it and making it gritty to a point where, like there's, if I'm remembering correctly, there's like illusions that he was sexually abused at school or that fan was, or something. Okay, yeah. And then there's I'm pretty sure it sets up the idea that Mrs Cratchit, or that either she cheats on Bob, or that to help Bob she is forced into a bad situation with Scrooge, or Scrooge tries to force himself on her, or something.
Speaker 1I can't remember the exact details, I won't watch this version. You're making it too gross. It's a lot.
Speaker 2It's a lot Because I thought it was going to be more the gothic horror and you're going to get a lot of cool supernatural stuff, but it was more like Like no, no, we're trying to make it modern.
Speaker 1That sounds just like being gross for the sake of being gross, kind of, yeah, like edgy for the sake of edgy, and he doesn't.
Speaker 2He isn't quite the payoff isn't. As there he's still kind of it's all too realistic. They tried to do the well. No, this is how it actually would be.
Speaker 1They Nightmare on Elm Street, remaked it. Yeah, when they allude to it and then in 2010 they make, remake the movie and they just blatantly say it and you're like this is gross, I don't want to watch okay, no, this isn't funny, no no, you got to just allude to it. You, just now, you just made freddy krueger just this, which is funny to say, but you made him this horrible thing.
Analyzing Different Endings of Christmas Carol
Speaker 2Well, you made the child killer worse wow guys, you made the villain too much of a quiet thing out loud, come on um, but like, uh, you know, so I it is what it is, but yeah, that sounds gross.
Speaker 1I'm not gonna watch that version now. Um, okay, nick, I want to talk about some of the things I like and don't like okay from versions I've seen um and then I want to. I want to end with things in the book that I have never seen in a movie.
Speaker 2Okay version cool Version, Cool cool.
Speaker 1Despite the hundred versions, there's scenes that I've yet to never see. Yeah, and so I watched the 1938 version by the way Okay With Reginald Owen Owen Scrooge. And I thought it was really good. One of the things I really loved about it is Bob is straight up fired. Okay, Like at the beginning of the movie. Just like you know in the book. It's like, hey, another word out of you and you'll lose your situation, Right, right. You know, no, no, scrooge is like straight up Bob pisses him off.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Oh, it's because he hits. He hit Scrooge with a snowball and Scrooge is walking home Dang.
Speaker 2It's like with Tiny Tim and the gang, and then bam, right in the face.
Speaker 1Then he gets fired and I like that because the rest of like now when we see Bob in the rest of the movie he's afraid to say anything.
Speaker 2He's afraid to tell his family like, dude, we are screwed.
Speaker 1That's really yeah, that's kind of and I kind of- like it because Bob Cratchit is also like kind of spiraling and he's like okay the money's out, but we're still gonna buy the stupid duck.
Speaker 2We're still gonna buy, yeah, um, the goose, the tree, the roasted, you know, uh, nuts on the open. He's still like. We're still gonna celebrate christmas, yeah, you know the whole time.
Speaker 2He's freaking out though, like on the on the inside, and I thought that was a nice twist yeah, because the only thing you lose with that is the whole trick that scrooge plays on him when he's like comes to work the next day and he's trying to act like I told you to be here and trying to act like I told you to be here and trying to act me in, and still before the turn, he reveals himself and be like hey, I'm not a bad guy anymore.
Speaker 1Well, that kind of jumps to a question I have, Nick.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Do you like that? The original ending, the Dickens ending which is that. Bob comes back to work the next day. He's kind of late and Scrooge does the joke like yeah, I'm going to punish you by raising your salary and and I'm gonna help your family and blah, blah, blah, or do you like? You see, in some versions scrooge goes and parties with the cratchits instead of fred is.
Speaker 2It is that what happens in the in the book is that fred goes to see the cratchits no, no, I'm talking about scrooge goes to the cratchits rather than fred's right. Well, like in the scrooge mcduck version he goes to. He goes to bob's, he goes to mickey mouse's house and parties with them, and in the Muppet version he does both. He shows up stops by the party during the song and then shows up. So there's two kind of endings that are traditional.
Speaker 1There's the actual Dickens version, where it's Bob shows up the next day late and all he did was send the goose and all the presents.
Speaker 2I think it's just, it's more fun when he shows up the house, especially the like, everybody gets a piece, so let's go. So like when the he knocks on the door and he's acting like old scrooge and mrs piggy, as miss cratchit is ready to like knock out, and that because if you, if you make it about like that bob got fired and he shows up the next day and acting like, hey, you owe me money or something, I think it helps to give emily cratchit, bob's wife's, more to do, because she could stand up for bob and maybe in that moment, maybe before that moment, she's learned oh, we're poor or something and so um, I think in the 38 version she's only we're poor.
Speaker 2She's learned that we're. We don't have a job in the 38 version. He goes to Cratchit's house with the goose and Fred goes with him it's the only version I've seen where everyone ends up we're going to Camden town and we're getting down because, because Fred seems, see, I wouldn't say well off, but it seems like he's comfortable, it's confusing. Yeah.
Speaker 1It's confusing. Fred is the most confusing part of this whole thing because in every version he owns a home in a pretty nice looking home.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1But Scrooge calls him penniless or calls him poor, a lot Right.
Speaker 2And I don't know if that just means by Sc. George lives frugally Like he lives in some like dump.
Speaker 1Well, he lives like in a mansion that he just doesn't take care of it's like Marley's.
Speaker 2I think in the book he just bought Marley's house Because it was cheap. He's like I'll just live here because nobody wants to buy a dead guy's house.
Speaker 1Oh, in the book he's renting out the rooms to offices and stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's what I'm saying you could rent with me or something like save your money kind of thing but he's like no, I want to start a family and all this stuff.
Speaker 1Anyways, I like bob getting fired. Also in this version and this happens in other versions fred is like he meets tiny tim going to scrooge's okay and that kind of creates more of like this weird, like I think insular, like insular kind of thing between cratchit and uh, because in the book there's a quote and I've heard it in some versions where Bob is talking about Fred came to Tiny Tim's funeral or whatever and just said hey, I'm really sorry to hear about that.
Speaker 2Because it's clear that Fred knows. It's as if he knew Tiny. Tim. Yeah, it's clear that Fred knows Bob. And in the version I just watched I think it's the 51 version he does ask hey, how's your son doing so? I like that we introduced Tiny Tim earlier. Yeah, doing so. I like that we introduced tiny tim earlier.
Speaker 1Yeah, because like you get to know him a little bit and there's more connective tissue of these people that should know each other.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's not. It's not a star wars like everyone's connected kind of thing, it's like no, these people literally live around the same.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I like that. And the only other thing I like about that version and it's mainly, uh, I my thing is, I think the 38 version does the things a lot of things I like. The 51 version does a lot of things I don't like. I'm going next so the 38 version. The last thing I like is that Fred actually isn't married yet. He's getting married, okay, um, but he can't afford to get married because that parallel screw and then at the end, scrooge makes him partner, okay, you know.
Speaker 1Just says, hey, you're now Marley, essentially because there's wait.
Speaker 2So in that in the movie he makes him partner yeah, in the 1938 version he makes Cratchit partner right.
Speaker 1I don't even think he does that in the book okay I think I've always wanted to see cratchit made partner there's versions of version and I've never seen it. There's versions where he's the he becomes partner see, I I haven't seen that version, then because I? Because I always think like, hey, dude, marley's name still on the board and like that's just waiting for scrooge to have a moment to replace marley right, you know, and but it makes sense though either way.
Speaker 1This is the only version I can think of where Scrooge pulls the trigger on that and makes someone else partner. And that was Fred the 51 version's weird. It is a little weird.
Speaker 2It's a little weird. It's like it's a traditional telling of it. What are the parts that you don't?
Speaker 1It's weird because the 51 version's the other version outside of the Muppet Christmas car that I see get top of the list a bunch.
Speaker 2Yeah, same.
Speaker 1And don't get me wrong, Alistair Sims does a really good job.
Speaker 2And I noticed it seems like Jim Carrey's version. He's kind of riffing off of Alistair's portrayal. I think so a little bit.
Speaker 1But the things I don't like is they do a lot with the past. Again they kind of allude to Scrooge killed his mom in birth. Don't get me wrong. That's actually not a bad idea to add that depth to there right and give a reason why his dad's just thrown him in some boarding school and leaves him by himself every christmas and then the whole fred thing.
Speaker 1That's actually a cool thing. That's not one of the things I hate. I think that's a good addition. I don't like all the stuff around like he and marley do a hostile takeover of fezzy wigs. Right, like he just like. Why do we have to add that he was like it kind of takes away from, like when he sees Fezziwig the first?
Speaker 2time he's excited.
Speaker 1there's Fezziwig, that's awesome he doesn't think about like dude, I screwed that guy over Cause in the books and the rest of the versions.
Speaker 2Fezziwig is like the first sign of like.
Speaker 1Oh, this is the first person in his life that he was like inspired. By.
Speaker 2And it and then threw a party for everyone, Like a good example of someone you know on his dime, spent his money to spread Christmas cheer and it's like.
Speaker 1It's kind of like this illusion of like what happened. You have this dude in your life.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1That was great. But like they do this hostile takeover in the 51 version, Then there's like this whole weird meeting where it's like they kind of allude if we had to make him like just straight up a criminal, we didn't have to make him tony soprano guys.
Speaker 2Um, I will say this though um, I want to talk about, before we move on, mrs dilber, who is in the book.
Speaker 1Okay, which is the maid. Okay, okay, and only in some versions has she ever actually shown having an interaction with scrooge yeah in the book. We only see her in the future when she's selling his bed sheets. You know, with the other three to the, you know they're like here's some stuff we stole from this dude's house and she straight up takes his bed curtains um which is. I don't know why the bed curtains are so symbolic or something, no just symbolic to this story, every version.
Speaker 2It's like we have the bed curtains and yeah, you know, and I think it's just, it might be like a thing of like his, the fact it shows, like, how rich he is, how rich he is, and that she was willing to take a dead man's like bedding yeah, um and so.
Speaker 1But, like in, my wife loves the jim carrey version of the end where he's dancing with her and she runs off screaming. Yeah, now the 51 version gives her more of an arc we do see him being shitty to her and we do get the character like her selling the bed sheets, but at the end he gives her. He also raises her salary he gives her Christmas present.
Speaker 1Now the play I went to. They did one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Now this play lifted from a lot of versions, so I'm assuming they didn't come up with this because this is brilliant. They had the scene and, like I said, they lifted from the 51 version a lot because they did the hostile takeover of Fezziwigs and that goofiness.
Speaker 1And in their version the whole cratchit family worked for scrooge and he were and he ran a coal factory not a money lending okay, I think just trying to call us more visible got it.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1More evil, you know he had a lot of employees, not just bob okay um, but he made tiny tim work for him too more accurate to the times. Yeah and so yeah kind of and so like uh, but uh, what was I talking about? Was I talking about?
Speaker 2you're talking about the way the baby this is.
Speaker 1Yeah, so at the end of the play version, though, he does the scene where he chases her around and like, and then he just wants to give her a Christmas present. And he's like and I'm raising your pay to whatever a weekend, and she's like what for? And he's like well, it's Christmas, you know. And then she actually comes back, though piece of holly, okay, and said this is all I have like, so, but merry christmas, and it's the piece he puts in his hat. And I was like dude, that's symbolic.
Speaker 1We see that a lot yeah in like pictures of scrooge. At the end is that he has holly in his hat okay, so for this play to actually give it an origin. I thought was badass that's cool.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's. It's a sim, it's not.
Speaker 1It doesn't feel forced yeah, no, it was a brilliant move by the play. I was like this should be in a lot of versions. I'm sure they. I mean, I don't know, I'm not trying to bash, cause that's the thing. Sometimes you run into the brilliant.
Speaker 2Sometimes you run into the danger of how did Indy get his hat?
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And it either goes well, like in uh in the last crusade, or it's really bad.
Speaker 1Yeah, where are the bed curtains? Ah, this is it. Yes, yes, yes, no, but I, I, I thought that was one of the coolest things I've seen this season, watching all these versions was the whole Holly thing.
Speaker 2I was like that's pretty cool. Yeah, I think that's a good addition. Now there's a scene we've talked about before that never happens, or at least we haven't seen it, and it's after it's the bell sequence.
Speaker 1It's the bell scene. It's the most gut-wrenching thing in the book. It is, it's horrific.
Speaker 2It's watching the girl that got away.
Speaker 1It's it's awful, and I mean like I got dumped on christmas eve once. So maybe I take this scene really personally, but like the fact that like there is like this this, like you know that, like I can associate heartbreak with christmas, that's my, that's my scrooge moment okay, okay um, there were like four christmases that were very fun for me, sure. Um, they're fun again, it's fine, and so like, uh, I mean they're okay, I don't really like Christmas. Anyways, I shouldn't put so much on that poor girl he's doing great.
Speaker 1But the fact that in the book the Christmas past takes him to the school, takes him to Fezzy Wigs, we see the breakup. Yeah, I can't remember. Is there more in there?
Speaker 2She walks away, she leaves after. He's like pretty much.
Speaker 1You're just going to stay golden idol. You married a painless girl.
Speaker 2The most haunting line like I hope you're happy with the life you've chosen.
Speaker 1Yeah with the life you've chosen, and stuff like that. In the book, though it's not over, it's not over. Then she takes him to the fact that her home now it's still the past. But beyond that moment where he sees her, married and with kids and happy.
Speaker 2And she talks about oh, I saw Scrooge today with kids and happy. And she talks about oh, I saw scrooge today, yeah or no? Her husband says it in the book. I saw your old friend, yeah, you know. And stuff like that and they're just talking about how he's sitting alone, he's just sitting alone in his little money lending house and stuff like that anytime you're a single man and you read this, it becomes a haunting image in your mind horrific, yeah, it's, you're like oh god, don't let this be me oh my god, it's, it's awful
Speaker 1yeah and so like, in the fact that that gets written out of every version it's just too much it's.
Speaker 2It's too much to take. It's. At that point dickinson's just beating it across. I have to make scrooge. You feel like shit about scrooge's life. But it.
Speaker 1But like my thing is this though, and I think a hit or miss moment in the christmas carol is the opening scene with fred yeah, it's probably one of the best scenes in the whole story, because Fred's doing really, he's just really back and forth and all this stuff, and I think the only version I've ever seen where I feel like Scrooge is still holding on to Belle at his old age is Jim Carrey's.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Because he says you fell in love. It's like he takes it personally that Fred is getting married. Yeah, and it's like he takes it personally that fred is getting married, yeah, and it's not like I feel like we're not supposed to get that. It's like, oh, you're wasting money on a wedding and another person. It's that he's still holding on to that heartbreak and I feel like by writing that scene out. We don't get that as much. That like I mean, we get it from the breakup.
Speaker 1We get it, they broke up, he's alone, but like the fact that he he needed in the book to see her happy and moved on without him and kind of it's that whole being forced to see something that you thought you were going to be a part of yeah, you know like he thought he was going to be married to that girl and those were going to be his kids.
Speaker 1But instead he chose the other path and then being forced to see her happiness and go, that could have been me, and I'm literally just living alone in a house with a lot of money that's useless it's a nightmare, yeah, and but like there goes, like that's why fred's in love and that's why fred doesn't care about money. Only this woman yeah, he like in that moment.
Speaker 2It's that point where he's like shit, fred's right and it adds to the layer too, because fred reminds scrooge of his sister too like his his personality and stuff.
Speaker 1Yeah, because you get that moment where she died a married woman and she had children. He said yeah, your nephew Fred you know, and stuff like that and so like, and you kind of. You know, the 51 version has a weird death scene with Fran or Fan where she's like, take care of my boy, Promise and he doesn't. So but yeah, you want a horror Christmas girl. I want a Christmas girl with just the scene intact. We add that scene to it.
Speaker 1We have to go that deep, damn it Like. Let us see Scrooge at his lowest.
Speaker 2I want to feel pain.
Speaker 1Yeah, for real. And so, and again, I could be biased at a horrible Christmas heartbreak. Maybe I just want to relive it, I don't know.
Speaker 2And so You're. So what was it called Masochist?
Speaker 1Yeah, it's just masochist, like, take me back to that Christmas Eve.
Speaker 2I want to feel.
Speaker 1And so, but like it's, it's. I do hate that we never see that.
Speaker 2Sure.
Speaker 1The thing that I picked up out of reading it this time that I've never seen in a version and this is really short and I understand why present. I didn't realize that he takes scrooge all around the world in the book. Okay, he's like showing people like in a lighthouse by himself, like singing christmas carols.
Speaker 2He's just showing that the christmas spirit is everywhere this is a montage. It's kind of a montage scene. It's like one paragraph but it talks about all the places it adds to the budget too much he goes, I mean it's kind of like, even in the book you're kind of like oh, this is like a weird, this doesn't really fit well, the rest of the story, but I get the point that's trying to be made.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's like look, you don't need anything to experience christmas. Here's all these lonely people enjoying christmas.
Speaker 2You know who which movie does that well? Which movie the muppet christmas carol does the? Whole song is just a montage of him walk around like the cheese for the mises oh yeah and then they're dancing everybody's. The poor people are having fun, basically despite being poor, they do.
Picking the All-Time Christmas Carol Cast
Speaker 1They do a good job of that. So, um, all right cool are we?
Speaker 2I'm ready? Are we ready? I'm ready? So explain to people what we are doing again.
Speaker 1Just one more time okay, so we're just going to go through the main characters of this there's like 10 or 11 um and then we just want to talk about our favorite versions of them yeah, from the versions we've seen, yes this is not us casting a modern cast.
Speaker 2This is not us going to a year. This is us basically doing our bill and ted rules, just exclusive to the people, we can create our own perfect christmas carol out of the people who have played the characters already.
Speaker 1Yes, and we're gonna cartoon drug all-star this and it can be any cartoons, it can be muppets and it can be humans, perfect, so yeah it's gonna be a real trip so um, before we start, there's only one version that has charles dickens in it yes so do we just automatically.
Speaker 1I wrote it down gonzo, charles dickens, gonzo with riso is the best. That's the only way to do it, yeah, which I think is why also one of the reasons it gets praised so much yes is. You have charles dickens. It's the only version version Charles Dickens is narrating yes, look exactly and I love it.
Speaker 2But it's also Gonzo and Rizzo and like they're. They're at their peak, like duo form in the 90s also you have like I cannot.
Speaker 1I cannot tell you enough what that meant to me as a kid because Gonzo's my favorite Muppet for him to get a leading role, basically leading role, yes, of what Probably the most popular movie.
Speaker 2I was so excited when he was on because he got that and then he was also yeah. Muppet Treasure Island, and then you had the Gonzo like movie about his origins? Oh yeah, in space 90s was very good to Gonzo it was.
Speaker 1It was I love Gonzo man.
Speaker 2And so he is automatically in, lock him in. I mean, he's not going to do better than Gonzo, he's not? It's true, it's the great Gonzo who played him.
Speaker 1I think it's the dude that played Beast in the live action.
Speaker 2Oh, Dan Stevens. I think it's Dan Stevens. That's not a great attribute to make me like him.
Speaker 1I know you love the. I liked the live action being the Beast Moving on to.
Speaker 2So we'll get into our actual list here. So let's just start from the bottom. Fezzewig you insisted, we do Fezzewig.
Speaker 1Yeah, because I just think Fezzewig's a good character.
Speaker 2He is.
Speaker 1He's one scene, but it's a big scene.
Speaker 2It's a firecracker of a role. You have to come in with hair on fire. You have to come in guns blazing man. It's just. You come in, you get one really good moment, your meatloaf in, uh, rocky horror picture show better analogy.
Speaker 1You get to sing and dance and set the tone, and then they're like and then he got old and died and scrooge took over. Yeah, and so, um, who do you have? I swear if you say fozzie bear, but this whole thing is just you and the muppet. I know because. If so, just tell me that it's muppet.
Speaker 2Christmas care, okay so the thing often, so oftentimes, when they do cartoon episodes and things like this, is you're always like, oh well, who's gonna play each role of this, you know, and sometimes they nail it and sometimes they don't. And I see people online always going like, well, this muppet should play this or this mickey mouse character would play that. I do think the mickey mouse one kind of nailed it, because it's a nice throwback it's mr toad. So it's a nice throwback and, like mr toad, is a very underrated he really is.
Speaker 1Mr toad is severely underrated.
Speaker 2He's a lot of fun, like I remember him just being pure chaos, and so it's great. Fozzy is just being fozzy. That's literally what it is. He's with his mom, so it just it. It works. He's good, though it's good. And then the other one, because that's the only thing.
Speaker 1The other one that I know and like that comes to mind is also like bob hoskins in 2009 bob hoskins kills it in the 2009 version, which is when we just have to say jim carrey version, yeah, um so, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2I'm just just because I know I don't have that many on the list. I'll just go, mr toad, it's a solid, it's a solid. I think it's just because he's, it's, the, it's, again, it's. That's the whole thing of like when you bring it together cartoon all-stars like that to retell the is, you're like I gotta see this character, who they're gonna pull out to play this character, kind of thing so um I have bob hoskins as my favorite fuzzy wig and who I would put, but I'm gonna give a shout out to to ian mcneese okay who's the?
Speaker 1probably one of the only highlights of the and I'm sorry, I'm not trying to trash this version. I think every version is good in its own way, because the story's perfect okay but the patrick stewart version wasn't my favorite okay, it's a little 2 tv 99 version. Yeah, it's a little 2 tv movie okay um the uh, and I thought ian mcneese did a great job as fuzzy wick in his one scene what people know in mcneese from oh gosh, he's one of those that guys.
Speaker 2He's one of the guys yeah, um niece.
Speaker 1I mean, he kind of looks like hagrid kind of, but he's not. Yeah, okay, did I spell his name right mcneese actor uh actor, if I could it's like mcneese, like niece like oh, like a niece.
Speaker 2Okay, got it other than e before the I.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, yes but yeah, I could see him in these man. I don't tell you what he's in he's just in a lot of things. Yeah, ace ventura he's ace ventura dude he's in the tv version nature calls he's the dude running around with jim carrey the whole movie okay, got it.
Speaker 2So yeah, there we go. Okay, there you go nice, nice, nice, nice. We are cinephiles um, mrs cratchit, or emily cratchit, as I found out today, that's she does have a name, which is good. I'm glad dickens gave her a name. Um, you know, the 2019 series. I was going to do a little shout out because it did give miss cratchit a bigger role, I felt like.
Speaker 1Is that the creepy version? It's the creepy version, it gave her a bigger role.
Speaker 2Vanette robinson plays her in that okay, does a decent job, okay, uh. Then you got miss piggy in the muppet version, uh, and I felt like that was the first time I saw her have like a full character.
Speaker 2But I mean, it's just miss piggy but, like a stern kind of like frustrated mr scrooge, like I don't know why you deal with that guy and it's like because it's a job, it's because otherwise we're poor. But then I also like when, with Scrooge, how they kind of switched it up and like she's not married to the Bob Cratchit in that movie, she's just a single mom with a mute child, basically, or like he hasn't talked in a long time.
Speaker 1Played by Alfre Woodard, yeah, sc. As a Mrs Cratchit, but there is a Bob Cratchit also character in it. That's completely unrelated. Completely unrelated, because that's Bobcat Goldways. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2I will say the interesting thing that people have brought up about the Muppet movie is that it's the first time you see, I think, kermit and Piggy married with a family. Yes, of pigs and frogs and they answered the question like okay, guys are frogs, girls are pigs. That's, we're just we're not even going to address this.
Speaker 1You don't think like there was like some serious like meetings. How do we wait? It's like all right, jim's been dead for for a minute, 12 years, yeah how do we handle this? Are they mutants? Green pigs, and then you just have to imagine, like what's his name? Who? What's his son's name?
Speaker 2uh, his son's name is I need to know brian b need to know Brian. Brian Hanson I was going to say Chris Hanson. I was like no, that's the guy that buzzed pedophiles. Yeah, yeah, just have a seat right here, mr Frog.
Speaker 1So I think Brian Hanson walked in and said guys, guys, boys are frogs girls are pigs.
Speaker 2Yeah, and they went. Oh brilliant.
Speaker 1Okay, great, great. The dark crystal guy went back to his drawing board. Never mind, never mind, it's okay, like doing the little neck.
Speaker 2Yeah, one day he's actually bringing in the puppet someone's rolling and he's like so all right, so, but my pick, I'll go. I'll go alfre woodard because I just like I like the it's. It's a good like change up of the character.
Speaker 2I'm glad youizing that way, because I'm sorry, but the amount of time Scrooge is going to show up on my list is baffling even to me it's, it's yeah, I didn't realize how much I liked Scrooge so I started making this list like oh, oh yeah um, I actually like Hermione Baddely Baddely from the uh 1951 version um she's just very old Hollywood um from the 51 version.
Speaker 1Yeah, I liked her yeah, but that's not my pick okay my pick is Miss Piggy okay, perfect, and I just think it's because Miss Piggy gets her moment yes. I think it's the first time I've seen mrs Piggy get like just a real moment where she's not playing a diva right, it's not she's.
Speaker 2I mean she is tied to Kermit, but it's not in the usual like I'm obsessing over you. We're having relationship issues. She got the frog man, she got the frog.
Speaker 1They have a family and she's a caring mom, it's true she's pissed about our husband being treated to work for sure so it's like miss piggy finally got a role with some meat to it. Yeah, some pork, if you will.
Speaker 2Um fred nephew fred fred, wow, okay, so fred's like one of the best characters he's just, he's the paul rudd would play him in some version, that's's got Paul Rudd energy.
Speaker 1That's really good actually.
Speaker 2He's just a golden retriever of a man.
Speaker 1Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2And especially the Muppet version. He's played by Steve McIntosh and that's really what he's known for, but he does, he just has that very happy-go-lucky attitude. Donald weirdly plays the nephew, but it's because it's McDuck Scrooge. Mcduck is is the main guy, yeah, but, and that normally donald's the angry one, but yeah, and he has the horse, which is fun from wind in the willows, so. But I was going to point out john murray, uh, who plays, uh, james cross, because it's not ebenezer scrooge, it's cross in his last name is cross, and so in scrooge.
Speaker 2But I liked it because not only was it his literal, actual, brother literally yeah, which is fun, but it's all and like he's playing his brother in the movie yeah but he also kind of adds a little more pathos to the character, like in the sense of like I'm worried about my brother.
Speaker 2I hope he's doing well. Everybody else is like why are you putting up with this guy? And you're like, because he's family, because I want him to be like. You kind of get that he has concern for his brother in the story, which is true amongst the others, but it's a little more like I really love you, uncle, please come hang out with us. You know like, and he's like ah, whatever I might, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 2Yeah yeah, and there's a disappointment that you get to see like there's a scene where they literally have his casket, open casket or whatever, and he's crying at Scrooge's funeral because the main thing is that no one goes. But I'll go John Murray for my pick. So who do you have?
Speaker 1I really like Barry McKay from the 38 version, but I think Colin Firth in the 2009 Jim Carrey version Okay. It's just perfect man. Colin Firth, the King's Speech guy right, yeah, colin Firth just nails it man.
Speaker 2Okay, from 2009.
Speaker 1Yeah, colin Firth, is it for me the way you said, paul Rudd? I always thought Cary Elvis should have gotten a shot. And Cary Elvis is in the 2009 version, but he's older.
Speaker 2That's right. Which?
Speaker 1is weird because I think Gary Oldman plays Tiny Tim. I don't really think. I guess the age shouldn't have mattered, but Cary Elvis does play the Dick Wilkins from Peskywigs and the charity collector that shows up, got it Okay.
Speaker 2Interesting, interesting. Okay, marley, the first ghost to appear. There's a lot of good ones. It feels like anytime they make a movie there's like guys, we have to make this entrance and everything really good. Some notable, like the Michael Horton one. Michael Horton from 51, I feel like it was a little more like pomp and stuff and he definitely was over the top in his performance. He didn't have all the bells and whistles as much like Alec Guinness in 1970, which I thought was a pretty solid one. Like he does have the change and stuff and like floats, which really like terrifies the Scrooge. Like that's the point he screams and terrifies Scrooge that's in the 51 version, that's in the 1970.
Speaker 2yeah, the 70 version does kind of a weird thing, yeah yeah, but like Statler and Waldorf in the Muppet movie, like that one is scary. I love Statler and Waldorf Like they're funny, but I remember watching it being like and it's the best song. It's one of the top tier.
Speaker 1Marley, and Marley is the best song in the movie.
Speaker 2I argue that. And the love is gone. But that one scene that's true with the bell and her new husband you're right, you're right, you're right, but then we wouldn't be crying that's true, I would be crying. I mean, we don't. Yes, we'd be crying more in a bad way. I'd be clutching my chest on the ground. I do love lou from scrooge, though his body's rotting away.
Speaker 1He's got like golf balls coming out of him.
Speaker 2It's weird it's a very cool interpretation of the character, but even like goofy is fun, the best makeup for sure, like I honestly think yeah, but yeah, like styler ward off, like that was a nightmarish for me as a kid.
Speaker 1I remember like it's creepy, yeah, like especially when they're being back, dragged back down by the chains and stuff so I think, like marley is important to the movie because it does set a tone that this is going to be kind of freaky. Yeah, it's, it's the first ghost and he's by far the scariest ghost, other than maybe the future you're yet to come but you know, but like it's creepy but future is a less is more approach.
Speaker 2Like he usually, he's just the caped dude pointing, pointing direction, and this is like no, I'm gonna scare you, but marley's literally a haunted house moment, because you're in your home, it's dark.
Speaker 1It's creepy. You just have a fire or a candle while you're eating your gruel yeah and all of a sudden the ghost of your dead partner just shows up and he's covered in chains and he's pretty much saying like and this is your future and your chain is a ponderous chain.
Speaker 2It's longer than this yeah you know, and so like it's, it's just freaky so, um, it, definitely because it, because scrooge is sitting there. Like you know, there's more gravy than the grave of you and, like it's, you have to establish no, this is real, it's not a dream, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1You know, yeah, um, did you give me a defense?
Speaker 2I was leaning alec guinness, but after it's between alec guinness and lou, because I just I don't want, I'm worried, I'm just going to keep picking muppets hey man, this is your version. Dude, get just just just your version it's the muppets, like they were the scariest. As long as it's not all muppets, because then you could just told me up top.
Speaker 1You could have just said I'm voting I'm just picking the muppets.
Speaker 2You could have checked the.
Speaker 1Muppet box on your ballot. Man Like and we could have just been done.
Speaker 2I could have talked about my people.
Speaker 1So you've mixed it up enough, okay. Okay, so who's your pick? Um man, I think Gary Oldman kills it in the 2009 version he plays.
Speaker 2He also plays. Yeah, Gary Oldman plays a bunch of people.
Speaker 1He plays Cratchit, tiny Tim and Marley. Okay, um, at least the face scan. I don't think he voices Tony Terry. Okay, that's good. That's good, like it's his face facial thing. You know, but I'm going and I had the speed watch. I saw it years ago. Okay, it's really good version is the George C Scott version.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's a solid version.
Speaker 1It's a really solid version from the 80s but, like Frank Finlay, is freaking terrifying in that version. And I was speed watching it because I couldn't fit. It was like I had like an hour one day. I was like I'm going to kind of like go through this and all the characters. And man, that scene freaks me out. So I think Frank Finlay is my definitive.
Speaker 2The first time I saw the 2009 version with Carrie. It's the first time I realized that his jaw was like unhinged.
Speaker 1And that's why he's tied. It is in the book that he does have like the scarf wrapped around his hand.
Speaker 2Yeah, like you always see it in the cartoons.
Speaker 1You're like I never knew what the purpose of the poofy has that, and so yeah, yeah, so it is creepy, for sure, for sure, for sure um, okay, cool up, next we have uh, this one was easy the one that got away.
Speaker 2Bell. Uh, basically, like I said earlier, daisy they do a lot with, not with minimal time with daisy in the role. Uh, kieran allen and scrooge is a different version. That's very likable. Merith braun from the muppets.
Speaker 2I'm sorry, but that it's just gut-wrenching yeah and she does such a good job of being like a, a vision of like innocence and like true love and all of that. And so when she just decides to walk away, and again, if you watch this movie and you aren't aware of it, they took out her song which, like makes it all worth the while. And if you go on disney plus, now you can choose, like the extended cut, basically where it has it.
Speaker 1It was on like the vhs version um, all right, ma'am, I kind of have a tie I really couldn't pick between these two. Two reasons I like clear phillips, the bell from scrooged, played by karen allen, okay, just because she has a way bigger role.
Speaker 2She's all throughout the movie yes, right, you know it's. It's more like there's also a chance that you there is a redemptive, at the end he gets yes, like it's kind of yeah. Again it's like, oh, isn't that nice yeah all the other versions, like no, you're screwed and you're probably gonna be alone. Yeah, she got remarried.
Speaker 1And like she doesn't even think about you anymore, other than that you're lonely yes and so um, and she dodged a bullet that's what you are to that woman and so um. So I do like that version. Um, we see a lot more of their past. She's going on the journey with them, kind of in the present. Um. And then, yeah, but robin wright from the 2009 version. When I think of bell I think of buttercup from the princess bride that's fair so like, that's who it is in my head nick yeah when I read that I see robin wright pin.
Speaker 1Is she still pan? No, no, no, she's robin wright, you know and so yeah, that is just bell to me that's fair. That makes sense, yeah so there's a world where carrie elvis and her are both in a version of this and just being great yeah, you know, we can make it happen fred, she's being bell, it's great I'm down, I'm down, I'm down.
Speaker 2Okay, so we're normally, we have, like our, you know, 30 or less.
Speaker 1So this would technically be like our top six, I guess yeah, but we're gonna start with like the main yeah, these are the main people yeah, so tiny tim, I'm just gonna go straight for the punch here.
Speaker 2Uh, robin from the muppets is what an easy pick. Uh, I thought that nicholas phillips from scrooge was wait is the, does the? Little frog have a name robin. It says it Robin. It's actually Kermit's nephew, Robin, but he plays Tiny Tim in the movie.
Speaker 1I wasn't aware. Yeah, you're actually going to have to help me with mine.
Speaker 2But Nicholas Phillips in Scrooge he doesn't talk the whole movie because of. I believe there was a tragedy, or it's like when his dad died.
Speaker 1Yeah, like he's just, he's mean yeah.
Speaker 2Which I love. God bless us line. At the end he reminds, he reminds bill murray, like this is the line, say the line, so that's great. Um, and then I did note from the 70s version that tiny tim was actually likable. Like it's the first time you really put a bigger spotlight on him okay, in an earlier movie, um, but I'll go with. I'll go with that one, just because I was like this is an earlier version. That didn't annoy me okay richard.
Speaker 1Richard beaumont was his name I have a lot of thoughts about Tiny Tim.
Speaker 2Okay. It's an integral role for what is kind of?
Speaker 1honestly, a little bit of a small part.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's only in a few scenes. Well, he's an iconic character too, and he gets the final line. It's always.
Speaker 1Terry Kilburn in the 38 version was very like hit or miss. I couldn't tell the kid was chewing up scenery.
Speaker 2Kid actors are hard.
Speaker 1And almost like he was going a little too fast for a kid on Crudges half the time Okay, okay. It's just like that kid practiced, he was moving, but he just, he was really bouncy and I'm kind of like. I kind of like it because it's the spirit of the character, but also like your kid actor and you're kind of annoying.
Speaker 2And so your pick is the kid from the robot, kid from Futurama right.
Speaker 1So I want to shout out Terry Gilburn because he is an actor that really gets associated with it. But I also like Calvin Cooley, nicholas Phillips, a lot because I like what they do with the. He doesn't have a physical disability. He has like a mutism. And so that. So God bless us everyone.
Speaker 2It's the biggest payoff of any version, because he doesn't talk Right and he doesn't die and he's a trauma victim.
Speaker 1So in every other version, Tiny Tim's just like this real beam of positivity for a kid with a disability and Bob Cratchit's saying oh, he hopes people see him in church, not because he's a cripple, but so he can remind them that Jesus made lame people walk.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1It's that kind of thing, whereas in this he's a trauma victim and speak. He's not a beaver sunshine until christmas spirit nails at the end. There you go, and so um, but my pick in. I'm sorry, I didn't know that robin the frog was a name, but you can tell me if little mickey mouse has a name I don't know if he does I don't know if there's any lore around is that is the little mickey, your pick dude.
Speaker 1He's the most adorable, tiny tim. Oh for sure, like you just want to pick him up and hold him and it's crushing.
Speaker 2It's so crushing when they're in the cemetery and he's just hold and mickey's just holding the crutch it's the.
Speaker 1It's the worst man, it's the most. So many versions just show the the crutch in the corner. But mickey mouse holding the crutch at the gravesite it's pretty rough.
Speaker 2He's the worst, yes, and like just the look on his face, like why don't we have a mickey mouse movie, like a full feature movie? I keep asking because they nailed it. I guess they nailed it in 40 minutes. They're like we can't do it.
Speaker 1There's no way to do a full length feature here and so, like dang dude I, I think it's the best version of tiny tim is the little mickey mouse version that's fair, because he is it's the most sympathetic. It's the. It's just the one that really nails it for me, but it is so freaking scary.
Speaker 2Yeah, or I mean it's so heartbreaking, that's fair. That's fair. It doesn't seem like he's a character.
Speaker 1So there's no lore there. Hanson was really good about giving these people names, disney characters. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, is it?
Speaker 2Oh, so it. So it's Morty Fieldmouse who plays. He portrays the role of Tiny Tim in Mickey's Christmas Carol.
Speaker 1You're making that up. It's right here in the wiki Morty Fieldmouse Wow Okay, so my pick is Morty. He's got a brother named Ferdy.
Speaker 2He does. Oh, his sister, mickey's twin nephews.
Speaker 1Oh, so they all have nephews, okay.
Speaker 2So they're just a bunch of millennials yeah, who's mickey's brother who had?
Speaker 1who's their father?
Speaker 2he's continuity since then.
Speaker 1Donald duck's triplet nephews yeah, goofy's son uh so only goofy's a non-virgin he's the only, the only non-kid, the only one with a kid when I actually had like, yeah, oh, yeah, max mickey mouse doesn't have a brother in the traditional sense but where does this cartoon character, does he have a?
Speaker 2sister. Does he have? Wait, we didn't think about that. Wait, who's Oswald the Lucky Rabbit?
Speaker 1No, oswald, the Lucky Rabbit that's the original character Like that's.
Speaker 2Felicity Fieldmouse is Mickey's older sister and the mother.
Speaker 1So is Mickey's name.
Speaker 2Fieldmouse.
Speaker 1Maybe. So he just dropped it for Hollywood because Fieldmouse was. It's too ethnic. Yeah, yeah, it's like we gotta simplify. You can't fit it Into a billboard?
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly, and then dropping Like the stein or the bird it's like if They'd done the Fievel Maus, I can't even say Mauskowitz, or whatever.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's because Fievel Maus, yeah, yeah, it's exactly that. So he just dropped it. So he didn't get Any when he was starting out.
Speaker 2There you go Okay, all right, we learned something, corey, mickey Mouse is Jewish, I guess.
Speaker 1All right, all right, so the Ghost of Christmas Past Corey. That's the movie I want, where Mickey Mouse escaped the Holocaust and then came over here and made something of himself. It's a success story. It's called American Dale, but I want it with Mickey Mouse. Donald Duck was a Nazi once.
Speaker 2We don't talk about that, all right. Oh yeah, we don't talk about that, okay, that's why he went to South America for a while.
Speaker 1Which, in all fairness, he was a bad dream.
Speaker 2It's true, it was a bad dream. Yes, yeah, it was a nightmare for him.
Speaker 1Yeah, it was a nightmare.
Speaker 2Okay, Everyone's like what are they talking about in Scrooge played by David we?
Speaker 1moved on to the Christmas past. You gave no build up that we were to the Christmas past.
Speaker 2I just was trying to transition as easy as possible.
Speaker 1You didn't want to talk about Nazis and Disney anymore. No, no, no.
Speaker 2Enough Holocaust jokes. It wasn't a joke, so the Ghost of Christmas Past, okay, got it. I'm torn between David Johansson in Scrooge as the cab driver, because he's just hilarious.
Speaker 1He's great.
Speaker 2And then the Muppets version, which is probably the most like ethereal, interesting way to do something, like the work behind it, especially it being like an early 90s movie. You still sit there and go like how is this possible?
Speaker 1I also love David Johansson's version because it's great. It's very New York.
Speaker 2It's very different.
Speaker 1It's very different. And also he was the lead singer of the new york dolls, so um is that your pick? No, I'm going with michael dolan from 1951 oh, from 1951 I like the long hair old man I didn't, I didn't vibe with it as much because it's kind of a weird paradox, like he just looks like a vibrant old man because he's supposed to be ageless, so you can't tell if he's young or old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay interesting.
Speaker 2Okay, I get what you're saying. Um, I'm gonna go with the. I'll go, david johansson. I think both are great I'm glad he's in, but it's, he's just, he's just so entertaining as well. And that's the thing too, is that through that whole movie they're just beating the crap out of bill murray they are and it's great, it's great, it's great physical humor for sure, I mean because, that's the thing.
Speaker 2Like there's this one, it's those are the only two that I really stood out to me in any version of of it. It's either like it's a woman, like in one version, and she's not even like really like 38 version has a woman.
Speaker 1Albert finney's version had a woman right I think so, uh, but she was like a woman wearing there's like a red dress.
Speaker 2Yeah, just a red dress it was just yeah, it was very uninspired, for sure, but yeah, yeah, I think those two just stand out because they're so different, or they're just so well done.
Speaker 1Okay, all right.
Speaker 2Are you ready to move on to the Ghost Christmas Present? Yes, let's do it I don't know if you have any other notes.
Speaker 1I don't have any Christmas.
Speaker 2Present. There's just a very visible, iconic. Look to them.
Speaker 1Yeah, it really doesn't differentiate much from version to version.
Speaker 2Version of version. It's the one that really kind of stays intact the most, except for scrooge, because it's the fairy played by carol cain excellently also beats the crap out of bill murray yes, very, very awesome version, and again, I'm torn between tradition and what's funny, but like, I just think the muppets version like it's, like it's just a giant puppet.
Speaker 2It's a giant puppet, but like it's like the fact that they made new creations, I think was a genius stroke for the movie, because if you'd had scooter or gonzo or fozzie or somebody playing it, it just wouldn't have had the same impact. Now you've got a whole brand new character that doesn't have the remnants of the past movies and stuff tied to them, you know. So I'm gonna go with that guy who voiced him and I had his name written down but he disappeared. But it's jerry nelson who actually also voiced tiny tim that ass I think it's a different.
Speaker 2Hard to tell who's the performer and who is the voice, but that seems to be. He seems to have played multiple roles in that movie. But anyway, who did you have in mind for ghost of christmas present?
Speaker 1like you said, this one's like very. It kind of stays the same throughout most versions other than scrooged um, which I love, but I do kind of stays the same throughout most versions other than Scrooged, which I love, but I do kind of want to stick with tradition on this one. I don't normally bow to nostalgia that much, but I really do like the Mickey version, which is just the giant from the from Mickey and the Beanstalk.
Speaker 2Yeah, Mickey and the.
Speaker 1Beanstalk. I just remember him peeking through the bed curtain was terrifying to me as a kid. It was very effective, like him being a giant, and I love the sequence where they're basically walking through like town and he opens the roof to see and somebody screams and he shuts, he's like wrong door, wrong door, and that's kind of my pick, yeah, even though, uh, I really like jim carrey's version too who plays him in jim carrey.
Speaker 2Jim, that's right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, that's a wild. The whole. That whole movie is just a fever dream, just like polar express, because they just do all kinds of weird stuff but they do the ignorance and want thing really well.
Speaker 1But I think jim carrey does the voice. Jim carrey's kind of a phenomenal actor for a guy that gets pegged he is, one note, very, very underrated, yes and so I I like his version a lot, but I kind of just want to go with the giant from okay, because I do think it's just fun them walking through living up the roofs sometimes with those those type of like we're putting these characters in this story.
Speaker 2It is all about like the, the stunt casting, or like what's the most unique way to do this. And they I think that's why that one is so good is because like, yeah, mr toad fits perfectly right here, the giant like we can have fun dynamically with stuff I really like it, um, and I think, like it's just, I have just really it's just one of my earliest memories just him peeking through the bed curtain, sitting on the job, all the stuff yeah, and all the and it just, it just stuck with me for sure.
Speaker 2All right, the ghost of christmas, future cory um, this is a tie for me.
Speaker 1Okay, I just have the muppets version. It's very creepy yes and then also scrooged this version.
Speaker 2They're both the generally the same but I do love the scrooge one where it's like I like that he opens it and there's the little things in there.
Speaker 2It's pretty great. I'm pretty much on the same fence. The other ones I noted just that were funny was dino. Was it in the flintstones one? You don't know it till it's over because it's the flintstone one they're putting on. The play of the christmas carol and fred has been thrown in and gets an ego for playing scrooge. But Dino plays the Christmas future and then Bugs Bunny kind of is the ghost of Christmas future to mess with Yosemite Sam Scrooge. He goes up and down the halls like in a trench coat, kind of ring-wraith looking thing.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2But I'm on the same fence. We can just agree that those are our picks is Scrooge and the Muppets, because they just both nail the aesthetic perfectly.
Speaker 1For me it's just like Jim Carrey and the Muppets one are both perfect and they're great. They're both terrifying in their own way. They do a lot of cool stuff with the shadows. Yeah, With the, the, the the Jim Carrey version, but, like I, kind of just like the live action version of the, the Muppets one.
Speaker 2It's just creepy and it's like the world just melts. Yeah, as they're walking is one of the craziest visuals I've ever seen.
Speaker 1And then I think the reason I probably lean a little bit more towards the scrooge version is because it's such a bland aesthetic it's just a hooded figure they do so much with it, like the things on the inside, um, and then the fact that it's tv is a face and it's a character who's obsessed with his.
Speaker 2Yeah, I love higher. Yeah, I love the tv aspect to it I think that's really creative okay, last two. So bob cratchit, there's a lot of good options, you know. Again I said you could put paul rudd as bob cratchit, but I think you need someone a little more. Martin freeman played him in like a this weird play version. I know it's okay, gary oldman's played him in the past.
Speaker 1Uh, we've talked about bobcat goldwith actually martin freeman would be a good bob cratchit. I mean, I don't like him, but he would be a good bob cratchit david warner in the 84 version.
Speaker 2I thought was pretty decent david warner he's, he's one, again he's another, like if you see him, you'll know who oh, david warner, no, I mean, but what version?
Speaker 1in the 84 version oh, I didn't know that that was david warner. Okay, that's cool, but yeah, he's in star david warner. Yeah, star trek. For those of you that don't know, he was the original freddy krueger original freddy krueger.
Speaker 2I did not know that he was recast before they I guess they started as a martin mcfly situation.
Speaker 1Yeah, he's in titanic. He's a makeup test.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's he's spicer, lovejoy and titanic, which, if you don't know the names of titan, he's the guy that works for Billy Zane.
Speaker 1He's Billy Zane's right-hand man dude. Yeah, exactly. Oh, he's in Tron. Secret of the Ooze, anybody? Secret of the Ooze. He's the scientist. Oh, okay, okay, he's the one that makes Tokar and Rezar.
Speaker 2Yeah, okay okay, all right, but really for childhood purposes? Mickey and Kermit, yeah Pretty much perfect casting, for that's probably like day one. They're like these, this kermit's playing him bob cratchit yeah mickey's playing him. It's mickey's christmas carol. We can't have mickey play scrooge, because that doesn't make sense hard.
Speaker 1I would have loved it. I would like to see the I'm who, you who?
Speaker 2who are you picking?
Speaker 1um, I have only one, okay uh gene lockhart from the 1938 version was just above and beyond for me he's. He seemed a little older, he was a little bit older, a little pudgier and stuff, but, like I again, I think it had a lot to do with the fact that in that version he's fired and it's just. You're seeing a dude who knows that, like the, the, uh, the path in front of him looks dark and scary, but he's, he's not gonna let him take christmas from him, it's gene rockhart.
Speaker 2Uh, gene lockhart lockhart.
Speaker 1Okay yeah, I thought he did great nice. Um, I really liked that version, the 1938 version of bob cratchit, I think, like I think it's, and you really capture his whole family like man yeah, aesthetic that you get again like gary oldman dude, he kills every part in the 2009 version. I think he's an incredible bob cratchit, because it's just, it's gary oldman yeah and he's just good at everything but, like I. Just I don't know.
Speaker 2Gene lockhart got it for me for sure I'm gonna go kermit just because I think of the two. Like the mickey and kermit, kermit does have just that spirit in him. That's like the never, yeah, never give up, never, never let the negativity get to him. Mickey. Mickey's more of a blank slate at times, but kermit always just has that endearing quality to him.
Speaker 2Like kermit has more of a personality than mickey mouse yeah like he's a little more depth than mickey mouse because the problem was when they made I've talked to people about this is that when they gave donald his his temperament, they gave goofy his like his uh, shenanigans and stuff, so like mickey kind of just became blank he's the spirit of disney.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's the straight man to all of it and kermit is a straight man but it's in a humorous way. He still like, gets impatient. He'll have freak out moments and stuff. He has a a pig lover. So there's a lot of interesting elements to kermit going on as well. So I'm going Kermit, because he's also just the songs he sings, like One More Sleep Till Christmas, the song that they sing at the dinner table in the Christmas present segment. But even his speech when Tiny Tim's gone and he gives the. This is the first passing amongst us line and stuff and it does a really good If you also think about it. I believe is it Brian brian that's playing kermit, after jim henson played him.
Speaker 1Uh, I don't remember who did. It would have been him or frank oz, probably probably not frank.
Speaker 2I need to back up and see don't.
Speaker 1Don't give me attitude about frank oz, but but I like frank oz.
Speaker 2I didn't say anything wrong about. Frank oz goes to christmas and we gotta, we gotta dive in here. We're a podcast, we're professionals, we know what we're doing. But also the cool thing about the muppet christmas carol movie is that's it was the scene where he's walking with tiny tim on his shoulders. Have you ever seen the behind the scenes of that, steve whitmire? Steve whitmire, yeah.
Speaker 2So talk about a bird and having to play an icon after an icon passes yeah but this, the whole segment where they're walking like it's a rolling scene and they're, and kermit's feet are moving because we have the bike scene from the original Muppet movie.
Speaker 1that blows people's minds, man when you read the amount of voices these people do and how unalike those voices are, that's wild.
The Best Ebenezer Scrooge
Speaker 2It's pretty crazy Cool. Last one, yep Scrooge, scrooge himself, all right, and I had a side note that I would like to see Harrison Ford play Scrooge at some point, just because he's a cranky old man.
Speaker 1He can't do the ending man. There's no way. That's true. That's the problem, isn't it? He can't act all giddy, he can't be happy.
Speaker 2That is the requirement. So you've got, you know, scrooge. Mcduck's played him, jim Carrey's played him, fred Flintstone has played Scrooge, mr Magoo has played Scrooge. Yes, the same mindset of like. Let's go back and watch some of these old ones.
Speaker 1Albert finney was the worst albert finney was just kind of a character yeah, alistair sim, I think did a really good job, great. I get why people call him the definitive.
Speaker 2I get it, yeah, and I think george t scott did well too. He really did. I thought he did fine. And then guy pierce was just dark and brooding and ryan reynolds was kind of a modern day scrooge. He in the scrooge kind of it's. It's more like that. It's like a 2023 scrooged almost. But mine comes down to a little bit of childhood, a little bit of the new. So it's bill murray versus michael cain for me. Okay, I think bill murray it's bill murray and like he just leans into his more like over the top personality, like that we see him do in ghostbusters and groundhog day, where he has a transformative moment at the end, like in groundhog day. But michael kane is just like I feel like he, if you were pulling him out of a book and you're trying to vision scrooge, like he's him to a t in my opinion like from.
Speaker 2He doesn't have funny moments as much, but like the fact that he goes on the journey and the arc so well like he's, it's believable at the end when he is full of joy and ready to yeah to take on the world in a new light um, so yours is michael caine I think. So I think, I think I'm gonna go. Michael caine that's fair.
Speaker 1I like all the credit in the world that people now like. Give the guy credit because he showed up and played it as serious as a heart attack literally his words around muppets yes, like, and it was played it as straight as possible.
Speaker 1Like to his credit, he said I'm taking this as seriously as I possibly can. Yeah, and very few actors would have done it. They would have played off the muppets, they would have riffed, they would have not taken it seriously. It was a paycheck. He was like nope, this is real I saw a meme.
Speaker 2It said, like michael caine treated the muppets as real people, tim curry believed he was a muppet in muppet treasure island.
Speaker 1And that's the difference, and they both work they do both work um, so you kind of give me all these people that you would have put in there. Let me tell you this In a perfect world I'd have had Gene Wilder as a Bob Cratchit.
Speaker 2I would have loved Gene Wilder as a Bob Cratchit. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1Around the time of Wonka. Just give it to me.
Speaker 2Okay, okay.
Speaker 1And so. But instead we were getting Albert Finney and bull crap in 1980. Or 1970. And so for Scrooge, give me, like 90s, 2000s, jack Nicholson or Gene Hackman as a Scrooge in a perfect world.
Speaker 2That'd be great, because they can both be crazy at that. Yeah, yes, jack Nicholson would have been an incredible Scrooge. Would have been a great Scrooge. He's an asshole.
Speaker 1He looks like an asshole. But at the end when he's got to be nuts. It's ready, it's perfect, and so and I think gene hatman could have been more- subtle version of that but my version, this one, was hard, this one, I came down to a top three okay I do think jim carrey's incredible as ebony's or scrooge.
Speaker 1I think he's like my. It's weird, I like. I get why people love alistair sims. I get why people like the original. Uh, was owens Owens? Yeah, owen from the 38 version. I get why they like these traditional versions of it, but to me I think Jim Carrey actually nailed the most traditional version of Ebenezer Scrooge.
Speaker 1Jim Carrey's acting range just as a voice actor and a motion capture actor in that movie is so underrated it's not even funny and he does nail his comedic moments, but with subtlety. He's not like Mr Big, he's not Ace Ventura here, yeah, it's just he nails it and he does justice to the story, but in those moments where he's like with Fred and it has to be real he's good, you know. And so. But it came down to besides him, it's literally between Scrooge McDuck, who literally gets his name from the character, like Scrooge McDuck's name is still Scrooge McDuck.
Speaker 2Right In DuckTales and everything else. It takes his name from the character Because I thought he was a comic book character before all of this.
Speaker 1I don't know if he was or not. I don't know if he was created for this or what, but either way, that's where his name comes from. Right Is from Ebenezer Scrooge. Very good job, and like it's one of the more satisfying endings when he's at bob cratchit's house, you know, and all that stuff, but I think he's awesome.
Speaker 2Um so he created in 1947 for the walt disney company by carl uh barks, but he is named after ebenezer scrooge. Yes, so all that's true. Yeah, so it just made sense when they were like we're gonna do the christmas carol yeah, well, they just made him a miser character like he just hoardsards wealth yeah.
Speaker 1And so it just. I think it's an incredible interpretation of it, but I let me ask you this before I give you an answer who has the most satisfying ending in all the versions? Which ending is the best?
Speaker 2I think it's for me. That's why Murray and Kane come up, Because Kane's is very much the musical Everyone's together, we're happy. It's visually just great and Murray is literally having a breakdown.
Speaker 1For me, scrooge is the best ending of any version of the Christmas Carol Cause. It's it I. It honestly looks like they just rolled tape and let Bill Murray go nuts.
Speaker 2It's a cynical man trying to figure out what Christmas spirit is as he's feeling it.
Speaker 1Yes, I think it's the best ending. Yeah, I really do. And then it weirdly breaks out into a song, but like the kid coming up to him tagging it's the biggest payoff of the God bless us everybody. It's him running around, it's him being extra Bill Murray-ish and I think Bill Murray is my favorite Scrooge.
Speaker 2That's fair. I mean, it's a movie that's really weird and like I don't think people think about it initially like as a proper, because you know it goes off the script so many times but I think because it's will it. Not only is it willing to go off the script, but it does it with intention. And like all the different, the ghosts are pretty much different, except the third one. The characters are placed in different roles.
Speaker 1For a modern setting, I'm probably wrong, but to my take. But as off the top of my head it's the most modern take. I don't know that anyone's done a more modern version past the 80s.
Speaker 2Not one that's. I don't know if there's a 90s version or two, I'm talking about that. Set place in the 90s, that set place in the 2000s, that set place in modern times. I don't think that there's been one that's been successful. Like there's probably been TV versions I'm sure place in its present day that's why I bring up uh spirited, because it's it's kind of christmas carol, but it's.
Speaker 2It's a different, whole different it's like it's a world in which the christmas carol happened and so like you're kind of, ryan reynolds is being visited by will ferrell's like spirit, angel, ghost character who is part of.
Speaker 1Like it's his job, it's like I have to it's it's the wonderful life thing of like I gotta earn my wings, kind of thing. So I'm trying to get you to.
Speaker 2They're just hawking from a different kind of different things, kind of kind of so, but it was, it was better than than perceived.
Speaker 1Yeah okay, all right, but yeah, for me it's just bill murray and I think it's just because I think it's the best ending. It's a little weird, it's a little off the cuff. There are things I want to cut out of it, but like it's just, it goes on forever, but head Well, it's after his stint in Paris and it's his big comeback and he got real butt hurt about not being taken serious with Razor's Edge and all those movies and it's a.
Speaker 2Richard Donner movie too, the Superman director. There was a lot riding it when it came out, for sure. But yeah, I totally agree, I get it.
Speaker 1That's why he was my number two or one b, really yeah well, I think that's it, man, yeah that was almost two hours of a christmas carol don't worry I'll.
Speaker 2I'll try to cut it up short to down.
Speaker 1I don't even feel bad if you don't because it's a lot.
Speaker 2It's just a ton of information just 200 years, almost exactly, of information easy that thing's.
Speaker 1We might be alive to see 200. I mean you will, for sure you'll be alive 20 more years, cory, come on yeah, I never thought I'd live to see 40, though, so I still think I'm on borrowed time. I think I got like 11 months left I and so I'm hit by a bus or something I hope not, I mean yeah it'd be nice if I didn't, but you know, I just feel like I'm gonna die soon please don't say that.
Speaker 1So, uh, this could be my last episode. Everybody, um, but uh, but no like it is wild to think that, like in 20 years, this thing's not 200 years old.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Which means we'll get a version.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, 100%. If they don't make a movie version, the local theater will do it. They'll be like we got to do that.
Speaker 1Well, anybody can do it. It's public domain. You can't own this. That's right we could do. I would love to do it, love to do it, but I got a deadline, so I gotta really live it up right now. Um, and so, yeah, that's a Christmas carol. We hope you enjoyed listening to this that's right.
Speaker 2Be sure to subscribe.
Speaker 1Follow us on at Quan Recast that all the favorite version of this um and tell us if there's a version we're not thinking of yeah, I feel like we named at least once every version that we know of that exists yes, we tried but um, I mean, we didn't even tackle like tv episodes that do this right, I mean, it's a whole other nightmare, so nuts how many? How much this has been redone? But, um, we, uh, if anything, prove to you that we're fans of the non-traditional that's true, carol's true um, but yeah, no, uh, thanks for listening and say god bless us everyone, nick god bless us everyone nick.