Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years
We are a time-traveling film podcast that journeys through time to take classic films, blockbusters and cult favorites, to recast them in different years!
Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years
A Christmas Carol - All Time Cast: From Dickens to Modern Adaptations
Who is your all-time favorite Scrooge?
This episode, embark on a festive journey, dissecting Charles Dickens’ “A Christmas Carol” and its myriad of adaptations. From the traditional to the absurd—yes, we're talking about the Flintstones and the Jetsons—this classic tale has been told in more ways than you can shake a figgy pudding at. So we're dreaming up an all-star lineup to reimagine Scrooge and his spectral visitors!
Join us as we laugh and reminisce about our own first encounters with this story. Whether through "Scrooged," live plays, or animated specials, "A Christmas Carol" has been a staple of our holiday traditions. We also touch upon the endless possibilities unlocked by public domain status, allowing new generations to breathe fresh life into this tale.
From the ghostly chill of future Christmases to the heartwarming redemption of Scrooge, this episode is a festive feast of character analysis and narrative exploration. We compare different takes on classic characters, and celebrate the quirky genius of "The Muppet Christmas Carol." As we approach the tale’s 200th anniversary, it's clear that Dickens crafted something truly timeless. Stick around as we marvel at how this simple, short story continues to spark creativity and conversation across centuries.
And hey, we want to hear from you too—what's your favorite version of "A Christmas Carol"?
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Hosts:
Cory Williams (@thelionfire)
Nick Growall (@nickgrowall)
Co-Hosts (Season 5):
Aly Dale (@alydale55)
Ash Hurry (@filmexplorationah)
Cass Elliott (@take5cass)
Terran Sherwood (@terransherwood)
Voice of the Time Machine:
Kristi Rothrock (@letzshake)
Editing by:
Nick Growall
Featured Music:
"Quantum Recast Theme" - Cory Williams
"Charmer" - Coat...
Welcome, welcome to another episode of Fa la la, la, la, la, la, la la. Quantum Recast, quantum Recast, the Christmas edition we did it, we made it to Christmas, your favorite episode every year it is Cory's favorite episode. No Halloween, I like Halloween.
Speaker 2:Got it, got it. We just have to get you some Christmas spirit here, corey, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is what we're here to talk about today, because we're going to talk about a Christmas carol.
Speaker 2:Which Christmas carol Corey? There's like 500,000 of them.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about as many as possible.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:There are a lot, even as we so obviously this episode we just want to talk about A Christmas Carol and just the different versions and things like that. But as I dove in, you kind of lift up a rock and you're like, oh my God there's so many, there's just too many. Even me. I was like there's what, there's like two dozen of these, and then you're like no, there's just like a hundred, there's hundreds. There's like episodes, like TV shows did episodes on the premise of yeah, there's a flintstones one there's like a jetson's one.
Speaker 1:I probably I don't know there is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a, really a one. Okay, all right, the ghost of christmas future is a robot. Oh okay, computer, it's a.
Speaker 1:I don't get it man, like they're already in the future and they already have a robot but it's their future.
Speaker 2:It's the future future.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's better than that, maid right, yeah, rosie, rosie, that's right, but like so, um, but mainly what we want to do because we're on this, on the show we like to recast. We were going to just do an all-star version, since we're going to go through the main characters of christmas carol and talk about which ones we think are best yeah, through each one that have been for the movie versions. But disclaimer we haven't seen them all they're right, because it's a herculean task because it's kind of impossible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, someone out there is going to write a book one day, but at that point, at some point, the book's going to get like what is it? What are they obsolete because they're just going to keep making more and more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, apparently, this and oliver twist is the most uh remade are you serious?
Speaker 1:adapted charles dickens. Oh, okay, I thought. Okay, I thought you're just gonna make movies in general I was like oliver twist. I didn't know there was that many okay I mean it's, it's, it's probably up there.
Speaker 2:I kept trying to find like a number and obviously, because they keep making versions of it, there just isn't a number.
Speaker 1:I haven't even seen a version of Oliver Twist. I've never read Oliver Twist. All I know is about an orphan. That's it. I've seen some versions of it. I don't think I've ever Oliver and Company I've seen one of the absolute worst Disney movies of all time, like bottom tier, like bottom 10 of song cory.
Speaker 2:The song's good. I don't care. After that it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's it's a dumb. It's a dumb movie um it's starting real strong. All I know is can we have more please? Sure the empty bowl scene that gets mimicked and everything that's please yeah, that's all I know about.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile, there's 130 000 christmas carol. Uh, there's even I mean, it's also split off there's. There's re remakes of it. There are new versions of it, there are like retellings of it in different ways. There's even movies about the making of christmas carol. It's kind of gone. There's there's winnie the pooh and peter pan have also done this. There's the regular retelling.
Speaker 1:There's like a movie about horror movie version of oliver twist, because it's peter pan and no, I'm talking about christ'm talking about Christmas Carol, I'm saying with those, there's the original Peter Pan. Winnie the.
Speaker 2:Pooh. They have movies that came out recently about the author who was creating the stories. But, they both also have the grown-up story where it's like Christopher Robin grows up, Peter Pan grows up. So we need a Christmas Carol story where Tiny Tim grows up.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I'm just like sitting here like now just thinking about how I've never really thought about how many movies are about authors writing something.
Speaker 2:There's a Tolkien movie, tolkien movie. There's the A Milne movie.
Speaker 1:There's the JM Barry movie.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there's a CS Lewis movie and there is the man who Invented Christmas, the Charles Dickens movie.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, he has to do this movie about his friendship with sigmund freud.
Speaker 2:Oh with freud. Yeah, like apparently they're friends towards the end. Okay, I didn't know he was friends with freud and so there's then.
Speaker 1:That's like a recent movie okay, I haven't seen it gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So but like yeah, okay. So I, and I'm assuming part of the problem is or not part of the problem but a christmas carol, what, what do they call that where it's so old that?
Speaker 2:you don't have to pay for it. Oh yeah, there's no copyright, you don't have to pay for it. There's a word for that. No one owns it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so it's like what Mickey Mouse now is. Apparently, you can just use Mickey.
Speaker 2:Mouse, the old version, steamboat Willie, steamboat Willie, regular Mickey's. You can make horror movies around Steamboat Willie, as has already happened. Has it really? Batman becomes available soon. Superman.
Speaker 1:Public domain. Public domain is the word I'm looking for, and there's like we can make a horror movie of this in two days. I actually watch Screamboat, screamboat, yeah, screamboat, willie man Next year.
Speaker 2:Comes out next year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is oh wow. Apparently, there's like a.
Speaker 2:From the producers of Terrifier 2.
Speaker 1:I don't think Screamboat boat willie is part of it, but like the, the oh, there's the shared universe. There's a shared universe now it's called like the poo verse or something like that, but I actually watched the sequel. I didn't watch the first winnie the pooh horror movie it looked way too low budget, but the second one they put a little more into it tried a little harder it's watchable, but it's still really bad okay, well, they've done that.
Speaker 2:There's like a there's a grinch horror movie too, like the mean one that came out. I haven't seen?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, okay, has. Is there a horror movie version of a christmas carol? Just the guy richie, gritty, gritty verse uh, they're the only.
Speaker 2:The closest thing I know of is that there was. It was the guy. Pierce miniseries which was it was less horror and it was just more like really nihilistic and just it was just real gritty, real gritty when we're making everything great, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So all right, all right. So, nick, we got to talk a lot about christmas carol. Christmas carol, sorry, sorry, sorry, christmas carol, apologies um, where do you want to start and talking about?
Speaker 2:I guess I guess we start at the beginning, like the book itself. Like the book sure, I'll give you a quick little little rundown of it, if you will I read it for this podcast I read it. I read it just on its own like 10 years ago.
Speaker 1:I mean, I read it like 10 years ago, but I read, I like I re-upped on it.
Speaker 2:Okay for this podcast well, it's a novella, so it's only 300 pages. It's less than 300 pages?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's not, it's like, it's like 90 pages okay okay, let's see, let's look anyone who has a whole like a book that look that, that the print is huge yeah so if anyone's just rocking a Christmas Carol on their bookshelf 116 pages. And it looks like it's 400 pages.
Speaker 2:That's a lie.
Speaker 1:That book's a lie.
Speaker 2:It's not true. You call that person out on that and just say, oh, come on, but A Christmas Carol. Corey released on December 19th 1843.
Speaker 2:Oh man this has been public domain for a minute 181 years ago, corey, in a couple of days from now. The original title title christmas carol in prose being a ghost story of christmas uh, written by the charles dickens in early victorian era. It was kind of part of what christmas is already becoming repopularized during this period of time christmas trees, things like that and so he dove into that and there's a lot of uh motivation behind his upbringing. You know he was, he grew up poor and stuff, but also it's it's a work of social commentary um which you probably are aware of.
Speaker 2:It's. You know he had a lifelong devotion to the undeserved due to his own family's experiences with debtors prison.
Speaker 2:So okay dude has, uh, dude had a hard life. Um, it forced him to drop out of school as a kid and work at a factory, but he was. He had seen, like uh, one of the mines or something where the kids working at and he wanted. Basically, he's trying to get quote unquote to help the open the hearts of the prosperous and powerful towards the poor and powerless. He's trying to get quote unquote to help open the hearts of the prosperous and powerful towards the poor and powerless.
Speaker 1:He's just writing documentaries before documentaries. Right, he's going to write fiction. He's going to write a documentary about how horrible things are.
Speaker 2:Tiny Tim has just got the black clone. It turns out, or something.
Speaker 1:And so From working in the mines. Yeah, he wrote a lot of ghost stories.
Speaker 2:Dickens was into ghosts, which is kind of was into ghosts, which is kind of it's. I think that's something people don't realize or they kind of forget about.
Speaker 1:A christmas carol is that it is a ghost story, it is like, and it should be treated as such yeah, like I don't own a book of the christmas carol, I own the complete collection of charles dickens ghost stories, so it's just in there.
Speaker 2:Okay, he wrote a lot nice okay, well, apparently, yeah, there was a big victorian like gothic horror was a big deal yeah and like people really leaned into it. Um, there's no imdb scores, so no true useless critic stats, but according to uh, contemporary, views of it no.
Speaker 1:Read all the critic stats for every version no no, we don't have time.
Speaker 2:Well, we don't have time, cory. Give the people what they want we don't even know how many there are. But uh, you know, uh, at the time of its release, apparently, the reviews were almost uniformly kind, it says. The illustrated london news describes how the story's impressive eloquence is unfeigned lightness of heart. It's playful and sparkling humor, it's gentle spirit of humanity. All put the reader in good humor with ourselves, with each other, with the season and with the author. It's a lot of words to basically say it's heartwarming yeah, what's the modern equivalent?
Speaker 1:like forrest gump, maybe, like you just feel good, like I feel good I mean it's also uh, I mean uh, it's a wonderful life. You could say it's like it's not modern man, that's old that's, that's more modern than 1843.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's true that's true, that's true. Um, all right, okay, cool, so even at the time it was, it was well received, but, but apparently the first edition sold out by Christmas Eve and by the end of 1844, 13 editions had been released, priced at five shillings, which is equal to $40 in 2024.
Speaker 1:Dang. So Charles Dickens just became Scrooge.
Speaker 2:Well, apparently he won like a higher quality book and he was the one that paid for that, I guess because he thought he was going to get more money for it. But he ended up getting like 230 pounds only for the first edition which is equal to $36,000 now. Hey, so that's pretty, that's not bad. That's more than I've ever made off anything I've ever made, exactly.
Speaker 1:Good job, charles Dickens. All right Cool, also known for Tale of Two Cities and what's the other Great Expectations?
Speaker 2:And was the other Great Expectations, the other massive For a dude that dropped out of school.
Speaker 1:He just wrote massive novels.
Speaker 2:He's like.
Speaker 1:I'm going to write about all this, just very, very, very complex novels about the class system in England. I love it Okay.
Speaker 2:And that's pretty much what this is right here. Yeah, for sure, it's a bunch of ghosts bullying an old man into giving his money away, which is what we need to do, Cor.
Speaker 1:We need to bully people.
Speaker 2:Bully people into giving away their money.
Speaker 1:You know sure, Recent events have shown that there are scary things going on.
Speaker 2:I disagree with recent events.
Speaker 1:I think it's still not necessarily the right path, but I would rather three ghosts visit yeah we just need to get some tech guys.
Speaker 2:We need to get some YouTubers to just go haunt A nice haunting Corey.
Speaker 1:Donald Trump just needs to be haunted.
Speaker 2:By George.
Speaker 1:Washington, abraham Lincoln and a nice haunting cory, not trump, by george washington, abraham, lincoln and kennedy. That's a good man.
Speaker 2:Someone write that there's I think there was an snl sketch that where he was it was like a christmas carol but he doesn't get redeemed because he's donald trump at any point?
Speaker 1:does he be like?
Speaker 2:I actually don't have money anymore, I'm I'm bankrupt turns out I really needed to win this election, pretended to have a lot of money okay, so anyways, um so okay, I, I uh, what's the first version you ever saw this? The first version I've ever seen. Yeah, or? What's your first engagement with a christmas carol, I mean it was kids shows like we were talking about, like episodes of tv. I mean, probably it's gonna be mickey's christmas carol from the 80s release or it's, or it's probably muppets.
Speaker 1:I feel like if you're a millennial, it's those two. Yeah, it's either a muppet or mickey mouse, right um doing the christmas.
Speaker 2:Both quality versions, though incredible versions, no for sure um, mickey's should get a lot of uh, a lot of praise just for being condensing it into a short. Yeah, I mean it's 30 minutes or so but yeah, like everything, it doesn't feel rushed by any means. We kind of take a lot of the love out. Yeah, yeah, I do, I was.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say that they do a decent job, kind of shortening his whole story with bell and stuff and like placing daisy duck there, like it's effective still no, for sure they do a good job.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I'm gonna have to say the same. It has to be like those two versions for me. Um, I think as you get older you start diving into other versions or you know, newer versions come out and you just kind of get into them. I would have also seen scrooged at a very young age okay but I'm honestly not sure. The first time I saw scrooge that I realized it was a christmas carol.
Speaker 2:I probably just thought it was a movie it didn't connect the dots later in life because they don't use any of the names right, yeah, well, because I didn't watch scrooge, I think, until college, when we lived together. I think that was one of the first times I watched it, which we have done an episode on scrooge, we have it was from season one.
Speaker 1:Our only thing we've ever done that's christmas carol related true, true, true. For all I know, we're repeating everything that we said on that episode I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't feel like anything's being read right here, dived into uh a christmas carol.
Speaker 1:Um, so a christmas carol. It's interesting. I was watching a lot of versions that I've never seen yeah uh in preparation for this episode same same and uh, I was watching one with my wife and then we also saw a play of it um in dallas we saw. Like dallas, they do a yearly um version of the christmas carol.
Speaker 1:I guess I've been doing it for like decades at this point nice um, and we happen to be in dallas for, uh, my wife's birthday and I just saw that they were doing it for like decades at this point. Nice um, and we happen to be in dallas for, uh, my wife's birthday and I just saw that they were doing it. So I said, hey, let's go see this. Um, and we watched it, and so I've seen a lot of christmas carol in the past few weeks yeah um, kind of doesn't get old.
Speaker 1:But my wife even does this thing. You know, sometimes because my wife's not a creative, she's very analytic or analytical minded and stuff like that, and she I'm like a, I'm like a thing, I'm like a freak to her, because I'm a creative, so she'll be like. So we were talking about christmas, carol, and she's like what versions do you like? What do you not like? What do you like that this play did, that you know that you haven't seen in other versions and stuff like that, and she's like what would you change?
Speaker 1:and I was like that's kind of a loaded question because, nick, I think this might be a perfect story go on I don't know it just really I don't know. I mean, like I know people have added, they've they've switched things around. There's all these little minor changes to it, but other than that it's kind of a perfect story.
Speaker 2:I mean structurally. It's really well put together because like you have massive arc.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the main character changes he's.
Speaker 2:He definitely goes from a clear you clearly establish dude's bad to dude's good and not only is this change like affect him, it affects everything around him yeah which is a lot of the times gets missed.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times we just see a character get better, but we don't necessarily see that affect everyone around him and weirdly, like because in the first act you establish the world, you establish him as who he is and then, through even the ghost of Christmas, past and present, you're seeing, like, why he is the way he is. Yeah, present to future.
Speaker 1:They do a good job at that Not only they establish that he's a bad dude, that Scrooge is a dick, but they do say but it's justifiable on some level. To a degree, yeah, like this kid got left at school. It's not in the book but there are versions, or actually maybe it is in the book they switch the ages of him and his sister I know. Yeah, but I can't remember if it's in the book or not, but some versions allude to the fact that his mother died giving birth to him Right.
Speaker 1:And therefore that's why his father hates him and his father's like a drunk.
Speaker 2:That might have been a switch, like they did, I think, in like the 1951 version, just to create more sympathy for him. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think in that same version which the play I saw in Dallas seemed to lift from the 1951 version, the most the one with Alistair Slade.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the one with Alistair's sleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and so because they also alluded to that fan dies giving birth to Fred.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's why he's kind of got some animosity towards Fred.
Speaker 1:That he's just kind of creating a cycle, which but that's what I'm saying, whether that's in the book or not that's a good addition to a story.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:It created like something you know, and so I was kind. Think you, most of these changes add depth to some characters because it's a short novella.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But other than that, just the story in and of itself is perfect. You do get to see why Scrooge is the way he is, why it's unfortunate that he became the way he was.
Speaker 2:But then we get this cool arc at the end. Yeah, and it's, I would say, simple in nature, but it does it very well and effectively. That's why things like the Mickey's Christmas Carol, the cartoon episodes of shows, can do it all in 30 minutes, because it's structurally set up like that, even though it's written, I believe, in like five acts or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's still very easy to adapt to a three-act structure that TV and movies love, and so and I'll say this the most impressive thing that A Christmas Carol accomplished was it created its own genre of Christmas. It did. It's Dickensian and we have lots of Dickensian Christmas things, which means no Santa, no Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what qualifies as a Dickensian?
Speaker 1:Well, essentially a change in character based on the Christmas season. Okay, so some supernatural potential elements, dickens creates the idea that Christmas is its own spirit Almost you know he kind of creates the idea of the Christmas spirit this wonderful time of giving right and being selfless. He kind of like takes it back from Santa. Who's all about getting shit Right? And then but then he also doesn't play too hard, other than just kind of like a Church of England level idea of Jesus and God. He doesn't really add that.
Speaker 2:That's not really part of the story.
Speaker 1:Jesus doesn't show up and take Scrooge around.
Speaker 2:There's allusions to the afterlife, to damnation and stuff, like, obviously, with Marley and the ghosts that pop up outside the window and then even at the end when he sees the tomb, and a lot of versions are just basically like hey, there's a giant six hole, that which leads to hell, basically. But not to mention too like around like eight, like the Victorian era of England, you have a lot of poverty and the church not doing anything. So people kind of like weren't huge on the church at the time.
Speaker 1:You know the church of England at the time and so like there's a. That's probably one of the reasons Dickens didn't just go. Well, what if Jesus just shows up and tells? Then we round this out to like going back to the birth of jesus and it's all being about salvation, you know and redemption.
Speaker 2:He could have done that because I think that's the weird thing. It's like, because it's it's he. Like you said, he created this idea of the spirit of christmas. Yeah, like, not necessarily a a thing, a person, whatever, a ghost, but like the idea of like carrying the spirit, the energy of like goodwill and stuff and personifying it or really attaching it to this one holiday.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean like, okay, you have like the Tim Allen verse of Christmas movies. He has the Santa Claus. Those are Santa Christmas movies.
Speaker 2:It's all about the Lord Santa. So basically we got Santa Corps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then he has Christmas with the Kranks, which is Dickensian.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:All the Christmas crap's in it. Okay, yeah, you know, okay, you know, I mean like you see santa and all this and stuff like that, but it's really about a dude who wants to skip christmas because he just wants to selfishly go on a vacation selfishly listen to being okay, don't get me wrong I in most christmas movies I actually side with the dad like pre-christmas spirit. I'm like jake lloyd.
Speaker 2:The neighbors were the worst part of that. They were like why, how could you not put up your christmas together at the end, nick, and like you, know, help the dude out of a bind.
Speaker 1:Dude, you're right. You're right, it's. It's a good movie. Like they're insane.
Speaker 2:At first, I made my mom watch christmas with the cranks this year for the first time ever and she's rooting for this couple to go on the cruise the whole time that's what I'm saying like she hates these neighbors and she hated the ending. That's the take. I think that's the take we all took from it was just like these neighbors suck until they needed them because and then yeah, but then it turns into a Dickensian Christmas movie. The spirit of Christmas takes over. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and Tim Allen sees like the importance of community and like you know what Christmas is really about.
Speaker 2:Right, right, you know it's not a cruise.
Speaker 1:It's about, you know which is wild that that's actually based on a John Grissom novel.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, okay, it's called Skipping Christmas. I own it.
Speaker 1:Okay, ranks is okay.
Speaker 2:So just to recover our initial uh argument here that what constitutes a christmas movie is that we've got santa core, which is just all things santa and his lore yeah, anything built in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have like the santa claus and there's literally like a movie called santa.
Speaker 2:But you could have. Like rudolph frosty goes under there like anyone that's attached.
Speaker 1:Yeah, santa core, if you got a song written about you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's your santa core and then we got, and then we got. Uh, we'll call it bible core yeah, which is just, which also has a lot of songs, yeah nativity lots of songs.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know angels, we've heard on high all the good stuff, anything. Veggie night is an absolute banger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes in, yeah so I'm probably top christmas song of all time. It, it, it hits but like it's the build but it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's all the nativity, like you know, and so like that so then you have Dickensian, which you could argue is kind of the start, very, very early start, of like the modern Christmas story really it's a wonderful life. Is Dickensian yes.
Speaker 2:I mean there's an angel in it yeah, but it's still Dickensian well, I would say like, whether it's supernatural forces or not, some kind of above normal situation, heightened situation for someone to go through a transformative purpose. Jingle All the Way is the same way.
Speaker 1:Nick, die Hard is a Dickensian Christmas movie, you are correct. So just so everyone knows. And everybody gets all bent out of shape about it. It's.
Speaker 2:Dickensian, we are a pro. Die Hard is a Christmas movie podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, pro that, yes, and stop showing the edited clip of Bruce Willis saying it's not. He's just making a joke about how it's a Bruce Willis movie.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:He's not being serious, so stop cutting off the end of that comment. Well, bruce Willis said it wasn't a Christmas movie. You?
Speaker 2:know what man.
Speaker 1:Bruce Willis doesn't. Don't be nice, be nice. Yeah, I gotta be nice now. Yeah, be nice.
Speaker 2:I gotta be nice now To really just to silence that. And why Okay, we've always talked about it has Christmas songs, it's set at Christmas. It takes place during Christmas Eve.
Speaker 1:You couldn't really put it. There's so much Christmas motifs in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so many motifs.
Speaker 1:The guy writes ho, ho ho, I have a machine gun. He didn't have to be snarky in a Christmas.
Speaker 2:And usually people's arguments are like well you could set it at any other holiday use. It's also a motivation, because why does Bruce Willis' character, John McClane, travel cross-country to go visit his family? You might do that for 4th of July, but you have to do it during Christmas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's Christmas. He's spending Christmas with his children. It's the most logical thing, his marriage is falling apart and then, through just this horrible incident that takes place on Christmas, his marriage is saved.
Speaker 2:Right exactly Until part three, and he realizes how important his family is until part three, and you know why.
Speaker 1:You know why, in part three, that his marriage is falling apart. I don't. It takes place in july oh, there you go.
Speaker 2:There's no christmas now and we've talked about this on our diehard episode, which you can also go listen to is that diehard one is a christmas movie, diehard two not a christmas movie. It's a movie that takes place at christmas. It's a winter movie.
Speaker 1:There's a difference, distinct difference it takes place at christmas, but there's no dickensian change right in heart it's just action movie it's just hey, some terrorists are taking over this airport and john mclean's got to go to work right, that's all it is.
Speaker 2:That's all it is. There's no, there's no journey. Even macaulay culkin's uh home alone is dickensian yeah, it's dickensian he's a he's spoiled brat who wants everything to himself his family disappears.
Speaker 1:Learns the value of family sick of like. Learns the value of family, yeah, and has to take out.
Speaker 2:You know, marvin Marvin.
Speaker 1:Harry, yeah, yeah, for sure, so it's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, three, three categories guys.
Speaker 1:But that, my point being that Christmas Carol created the idea of the Dickensian.
Speaker 2:He kind of took I wouldn't call it mythos, but just concept that there's a specialness to the holiday that has a quality. It's it's borrowing the qualities of redemptiveness, redemption, things of that nature and and kind of. It is also kind of like the mirror opposite of the santa stuff, because while santa, santa core, santa claus story stuff isn't necessarily about capitalism and presence and stuff, it's built into it like that's where it comes from.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like oh, if you're good, saying we'll get you gifts and stuff and like and like and to credit, like charles dickens as a writer and like him unintentionally creating something called the kensian um it's. It's very much like he wrote something to be universal, yeah, by kind of shying away from a religious side of it and shying away from, like, the santa tradition that was coming in at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know like yeah, we had santa, we had trees and all this stuff and this ideas, but like to kind of get away from that and to like find a middle he said we're not gonna make this about christmas, the holiday we're not gonna make about this christmas, the uh birth of jesus sure he said let's write it to where. Whether or not you celebrate either of those things, this is a story for you. It's very much Tolkien writing Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Lord of the Rings is not by any means Tolkien sitting down saying I'm going to write this allegory to the Christian faith.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:He said I'm going to write a fantasy novel and chances are my Christian faith is just going to come out.
Speaker 2:That was his whole. Thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like.
Speaker 2:I, he didn't make a talking. Jesus lion is what you're saying. Yeah, he didn't make Aslan.
Speaker 1:You know, CS Lewis could not do it, he tried.
Speaker 2:He tried. Tolkien berated him for it, but he continued. He pressed on.
Speaker 1:So yeah, cs Lewis was a better nonfiction writer.
Speaker 2:Court let me ask you before we move forward. So you've talked about how you believe it's a perfect story. We've dived into that a bit as many different ones as we possibly could at this point in time, and I'm sure there's more. They're there. Yeah, I would like to see, and maybe the audience can tell us or comment for us or slip into our dms and let us know if they know.
Speaker 2:But the fact that this is a ghost story, yeah I need like a proper like horror version of this, not so much that like we're going to lean into like the modern schlock of horror.
Speaker 2:But like give it that, give me the nostradont nosferatu version that we're getting this year. Like I don't I haven't seen that movie yet but like kind of more about the vibes, more about atmosphere, more about make. Because like, growing up, like even the muppet, christmas carol, like when they had the ghosts, like they were creepy, they were scary to it to an extent. Yeah, like they, they did not pull back because initially they were like we're just gonna have gonzo and fozzie and miss piggy or whoever scooter play the ghost. And then they're like no, let's take this seriously, and like their creations are actually some of the most like, at least imprinted on my mind and a lot of millennials mind, like that's what the ghost of christmas, past and future look like why can't I think of the ghost of christmas past and muppets?
Speaker 1:the?
Speaker 2:past, is the little girl that's floating looks like she's underwater. That's's right, yeah, but she's a flame because it's supposed to be like a flame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's supposed to be a flame that's ageless and she's kind of like a flame, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:But in the Jim Carrey one it's like it's. It's it's probably the most accurate to the portrayal with the flame like a living flame, yeah, like a living flame, and it yeah, closest to the original story, for sure yeah because some of them, even like the mickey, one will pull back on those horror elements like you're not getting. Remind me again the two children that are underneath the ghost christmas presents, cloak, want and pestilence yeah you don't get that because just because it's, it's more creepy and stuff, so it doesn't work.
Speaker 2:In a disney format, yeah, but like I know there are versions that have it and I'm the jim carrey one has a lot of those elements and so I think, like a live action it's. It's the same argument of like we need a good, like solid version of Robin modern, solid version of Robin Hood. We kind of have those with Peter Pan's. You don't need one at the moment. There's tons of versions of that. But I feel like you could get a really solid like big budget Christmas Carol ignorance and want ignorance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like, it's not pestilence, that's one of the four horsemen. Oh sorry, sorry, ignorance in one, got it, got it okay. Um, yeah, no, I think that, like, like I, I do not know why there's not like a traditional horror version of this, considering, like I said, the horror movie yeah, we're blumhouse a24, somebody can we make? Public domain horror movies yes so you heard it here first um, what about that movie that just like uh, it's a wonderful knife, was that like? Was that a christmas carol thing?
Speaker 1:oh, it's, I'm having to remember we we had a long conversation about how uninspired the mask was oh, it's just like the blank white face. Yeah it's just boring and it's a dumb title for a movie. It's a wonderful knife 2023.
Speaker 2:Uh, horror comedy it's, uh, it's a spin on it's a wonderful life okay, well, I guess I should have taken that from the title. Instead of the lead character recognizing his previous good deeds, the character discovers how many deaths they have prevented in their town.
Speaker 1:like the main character, Interesting, okay, but I don't know. I just maybe the reason you can't have a horror movie version of this is because there's a redemptive ending man.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I mean, though, is like the best versions tap into that horror element, so that not only does Scrooge seem unredeemable, but like his situation seems so treacherous and so like downhill so fast, like you almost want to believe, like there's no way this guy can be redeemed, especially given the fact that no way this guy can be redeemed, especially given the fact that and I think, having more ghostly, more horror element things going on, just it would be fun, I think. But it's definitely a balancing act.
Speaker 1:You would have to do something weird like Scrooge is a serial killer and past takes him to past victims. Present takes him to the girl currently locked up in his basement. I just think future takes him to future victims.
Speaker 2:See, I think that's the blumhouse thing and I think that's the mistake. I think I think, again, nosferatu is like the, the tone of that that we've seen so far, maybe. I know it's probably gonna be very edgy and like edgy and like a we're pushing boundaries.
Speaker 1:It's really good. Same same too. Yeah, that's the christmas movie I'm looking forward to. Other than that, all I can think about is just like a krampus style movie, but instead of toys and and santa core monsters it's just the Christmas ghost trying to kill them. Sure, and so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's. I don't think, I don't think you have to like make it a slasher by any means. I just think make it scary.
Speaker 1:You want a really gothic-y horror movie. I just want some gothic-y horror. Okay, you just want like a gothic-y yeah, a good, solid gothic horror version All right that like, not a mini series like yeah, you want something that can go r.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want something a little r that go big budget.
Speaker 1:So, like ghost christmas, future's horrifying the christmas like albert finney did in the 70 version that was why I watched that this afternoon and like a albert finney I'm, I know a lot of people.
Speaker 2:What I was reading about is, like most people don't like this and I'm sadly, I agree with them, because he is like a character is a cartoonish version of Scrooge.
Speaker 1:So I learned something this Christmas while watching all these versions.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But like everything there's an exception. I think it's weird a little bit that the Muppet Christmas Carol is kind of universally the most beloved version of this movie. Yeah, because it weirdly is, it tops most lists that I read and that's by like non-millennials. Yeah, just saying this one works.
Speaker 2:I believe, like the, either the london museum or whoever is kind of looking over a lot of this charles dickens stuff said like this is the closest version to it that they had seen so far, because they use the prose from from the original book novella, and then having gonzo play, charles dickens literally just inserts the narration by itself of all the versions I see and I think 2009 is the closest yeah to the book.
Speaker 1:Um, but again, I mean, I'm not a historian. I think it does, I think it has like.
Speaker 1:You don't have elements like when marley comes to visit and he comes out the window and you just see tons, thousands of ghosts, and that's horrifying, and that's terrifying and then, like we said, not, not pestilence, but uh ignorance and want the more grotesque things and are in the jim carrey version um and so, uh, I love that we call it the jim carrey version the robertson mccherry and the muppets are currently holding the title for best versions of the christmas carol and a lot of people pointed to the 1951 version.
Speaker 2:But it's just, it's the black and white tradition it's. It's a good version yeah, I think it holds its place, for sure but back to my point, the thing I learned about myself, nick.
Speaker 1:But I do think the muppets do it right. I don't like musical adaptations of the story. Sure, I didn't like the albert finney songs. They went on forever the scrooge 1970.
Speaker 2:Yeah, albert finney version.
Speaker 1:I didn't like it. It was really long um there's gotta be catchy there was another version of the musical. Oh, like the play I saw saw was a musical, I hated it.
Speaker 2:Okay, and and that was more like they didn't write original music, they just tried to cram christmas carols like very oblongly into it, like I feel like that would have because we did a version in college and I liked that one because it uses the pros and it allowed everyone, like it was more told by by group, by by ensemble. It wasn't just a narrator, it's like different people were coming in to tell the different lines and stuff, or the characters would say the lines. Obviously, but I do it's kind of. Yeah, I feel like if you're gonna put music in it, it has to be like you just have carolers or people singing and it's a transitioning at the piece or set change type stuff.
Speaker 1:But when you're doing like a movie, your muppets christmas carol is probably the one that has the best songs yeah, no, those songs are good like they don't suck, they're pretty good and so like, but I I pretty much learned that I don't like other musical versions of this.
Speaker 2:Kelsey grammar has a musical one I saw that didn't love it okay didn't love it, did not like the songs there is also the 2023 movie that came out last year with gosling not gosling ryan reynolds and will ferrell, I haven seen it. It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1:Is it a Christmas?
Speaker 2:Carol, it's a version. It's like a new spin on it. It's a whole thing we take too long to get into it. I would, if you have time, give it a shot. I'm not going to say any more than that.
Speaker 1:I'm almost 40. I'm running out of time.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, try one more time. I'm running out of time for Will Ferrell Before you lock in all your movies and go these are my movies.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to re-watch these until I'm dead, so, but okay, I did learn. I don't love the musical versions of this but the Muppet Christmas Carol is an exception.
Speaker 2:The songs don't suck, it's also the Muppet like you're not going to be that mad about a Muppet singing but they also sing catchy songs. Right, they were. They were a normal length. It wasn't like there's a 10 minute version. It's like it's oh my gosh, let's let's okay, let's go.
Speaker 2:But can we talk about the trip to hell that he goes on like they might as well just kind of call the scrooge goes to hell like the jason goes to hell of the series because and it's a weird 1970s hell like a wild version yeah, because he gets locked in a room, you know it's, it's the, it's the, it's a proper, you know Dante's Inferno type hell because he's being, his punishment is tied to his same situation because he's basically in a freezing room doing the same work for Satan. I guess they don't know that Bob Cratchit was doing for him.
Speaker 1:And that would be one of those things where I would say that's a misstep when someone tried to add something. Yeah, you know like again, like for better or for worse. Know, like again, like for better, for worse. So I've seen things that I'm like this makes the story better. And I've seen things that are like because to me hell is like okay, you brought jesus, kind of into it you kind of gotten it off the track of this universal thing to where, like I mean like technically, in the christian faith, we don't really talk that much about ghosts as an afterlife right.
Speaker 1:You know, and this is like not look, jacob marley's punishment is in hell.
Speaker 2:It's to walk around the earth carrying all these boxes around and wanting to help people, but he can't. It's, uh, the 51 version. I watched today, the albert finney one. Right, or is it? No, that's that's alistair alistair, but his uh marley was pretty. The way that they introduced him was the slow tyrannosaurus rex in jurassic parkway, where you hear the chains being dragged and before you even see him, and then the door kicks open. You don't even see him yet and I was like that's pretty effective yeah, no, that was pretty good.
Speaker 1:Um, what else can we say about this?
Speaker 2:that it's somehow. Yeah, even though you watch multiple versions of it and they're using a lot of the same lines, there's always. It's always interesting to watch them because you're trying to find, like, okay, what did you do differently or what did you like? Now, the miniseries fx show with guy pierce, it's kind of doing what you're talking about. It's like it.
Speaker 2:He was trying to add too much and it was modernizing it and making it gritty to a point where, like there's, if I'm remembering correctly, there's like illusions that he was sexually abused at school or that fan was, or something. Okay, yeah. And then there's I'm pretty sure it sets up the idea that Mrs Cratchit, or that either she cheats on Bob, or that to help Bob she is forced into a bad situation with Scrooge, or Scrooge tries to force himself on her, or something.
Speaker 1:I can't remember the exact details, I won't watch this version. You're making it too gross. It's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a lot Because I thought it was going to be more the gothic horror and you're going to get a lot of cool supernatural stuff, but it was more like Like no, no, we're trying to make it modern.
Speaker 1:That sounds just like being gross for the sake of being gross, kind of, yeah, like edgy for the sake of edgy, and he doesn't.
Speaker 2:He isn't quite the payoff isn't. As there he's still kind of it's all too realistic. They tried to do the well. No, this is how it actually would be.
Speaker 1:They Nightmare on Elm Street, remaked it. Yeah, when they allude to it and then in 2010 they make, remake the movie and they just blatantly say it and you're like this is gross, I don't want to watch okay, no, this isn't funny, no no, you got to just allude to it. You, just now, you just made freddy krueger just this, which is funny to say, but you made him this horrible thing.
Speaker 2:Well, you made the child killer worse wow guys, you made the villain too much of a quiet thing out loud, come on um, but like, uh, you know, so I it is what it is, but yeah, that sounds gross.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna watch that version now. Um, okay, nick, I want to talk about some of the things I like and don't like okay from versions I've seen um and then I want to. I want to end with things in the book that I have never seen in a movie.
Speaker 2:Okay version cool Version, Cool cool.
Speaker 1:Despite the hundred versions, there's scenes that I've yet to never see. Yeah, and so I watched the 1938 version by the way Okay With Reginald Owen Owen Scrooge. And I thought it was really good. One of the things I really loved about it is Bob is straight up fired. Okay, Like at the beginning of the movie. Just like you know in the book. It's like, hey, another word out of you and you'll lose your situation, Right, right. You know, no, no, scrooge is like straight up Bob pisses him off.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's because he hits. He hit Scrooge with a snowball and Scrooge is walking home Dang.
Speaker 2:It's like with Tiny Tim and the gang, and then bam, right in the face.
Speaker 1:Then he gets fired and I like that because the rest of like now when we see Bob in the rest of the movie he's afraid to say anything.
Speaker 2:He's afraid to tell his family like, dude, we are screwed.
Speaker 1:That's really yeah, that's kind of and I kind of- like it because Bob Cratchit is also like kind of spiraling and he's like okay the money's out, but we're still gonna buy the stupid duck.
Speaker 2:We're still gonna buy, yeah, um, the goose, the tree, the roasted, you know, uh, nuts on the open. He's still like. We're still gonna celebrate christmas, yeah, you know the whole time.
Speaker 2:He's freaking out though, like on the on the inside, and I thought that was a nice twist yeah, because the only thing you lose with that is the whole trick that scrooge plays on him when he's like comes to work the next day and he's trying to act like I told you to be here and trying to act like I told you to be here and trying to act me in, and still before the turn, he reveals himself and be like hey, I'm not a bad guy anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, that kind of jumps to a question I have, Nick.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you like that? The original ending, the Dickens ending which is that. Bob comes back to work the next day. He's kind of late and Scrooge does the joke like yeah, I'm going to punish you by raising your salary and and I'm gonna help your family and blah, blah, blah, or do you like? You see, in some versions scrooge goes and parties with the cratchits instead of fred is.
Speaker 2:It is that what happens in the in the book is that fred goes to see the cratchits no, no, I'm talking about scrooge goes to the cratchits rather than fred's right. Well, like in the scrooge mcduck version he goes to. He goes to bob's, he goes to mickey mouse's house and parties with them, and in the Muppet version he does both. He shows up stops by the party during the song and then shows up. So there's two kind of endings that are traditional.
Speaker 1:There's the actual Dickens version, where it's Bob shows up the next day late and all he did was send the goose and all the presents.
Speaker 2:I think it's just, it's more fun when he shows up the house, especially the like, everybody gets a piece, so let's go. So like when the he knocks on the door and he's acting like old scrooge and mrs piggy, as miss cratchit is ready to like knock out, and that because if you, if you make it about like that bob got fired and he shows up the next day and acting like, hey, you owe me money or something, I think it helps to give emily cratchit, bob's wife's, more to do, because she could stand up for bob and maybe in that moment, maybe before that moment, she's learned oh, we're poor or something and so um, I think in the 38 version she's only we're poor.
Speaker 2:She's learned that we're. We don't have a job in the 38 version. He goes to Cratchit's house with the goose and Fred goes with him it's the only version I've seen where everyone ends up we're going to Camden town and we're getting down because, because Fred seems, see, I wouldn't say well off, but it seems like he's comfortable, it's confusing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's confusing. Fred is the most confusing part of this whole thing because in every version he owns a home in a pretty nice looking home.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But Scrooge calls him penniless or calls him poor, a lot Right.
Speaker 2:And I don't know if that just means by Sc. George lives frugally Like he lives in some like dump.
Speaker 1:Well, he lives like in a mansion that he just doesn't take care of it's like Marley's.
Speaker 2:I think in the book he just bought Marley's house Because it was cheap. He's like I'll just live here because nobody wants to buy a dead guy's house.
Speaker 1:Oh, in the book he's renting out the rooms to offices and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm saying you could rent with me or something like save your money kind of thing but he's like no, I want to start a family and all this stuff.
Speaker 1:Anyways, I like bob getting fired. Also in this version and this happens in other versions fred is like he meets tiny tim going to scrooge's okay and that kind of creates more of like this weird, like I think insular, like insular kind of thing between cratchit and uh, because in the book there's a quote and I've heard it in some versions where Bob is talking about Fred came to Tiny Tim's funeral or whatever and just said hey, I'm really sorry to hear about that.
Speaker 2:Because it's clear that Fred knows. It's as if he knew Tiny. Tim. Yeah, it's clear that Fred knows Bob. And in the version I just watched I think it's the 51 version he does ask hey, how's your son doing so? I like that we introduced Tiny Tim earlier. Yeah, doing so. I like that we introduced tiny tim earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because like you get to know him a little bit and there's more connective tissue of these people that should know each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not. It's not a star wars like everyone's connected kind of thing, it's like no, these people literally live around the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I like that. And the only other thing I like about that version and it's mainly, uh, I my thing is, I think the 38 version does the things a lot of things I like. The 51 version does a lot of things I don't like. I'm going next so the 38 version. The last thing I like is that Fred actually isn't married yet. He's getting married, okay, um, but he can't afford to get married because that parallel screw and then at the end, scrooge makes him partner, okay, you know.
Speaker 1:Just says, hey, you're now Marley, essentially because there's wait.
Speaker 2:So in that in the movie he makes him partner yeah, in the 1938 version he makes Cratchit partner right.
Speaker 1:I don't even think he does that in the book okay I think I've always wanted to see cratchit made partner there's versions of version and I've never seen it. There's versions where he's the he becomes partner see, I I haven't seen that version, then because I? Because I always think like, hey, dude, marley's name still on the board and like that's just waiting for scrooge to have a moment to replace marley right, you know, and but it makes sense though either way.
Speaker 1:This is the only version I can think of where Scrooge pulls the trigger on that and makes someone else partner. And that was Fred the 51 version's weird. It is a little weird.
Speaker 2:It's a little weird. It's like it's a traditional telling of it. What are the parts that you don't?
Speaker 1:It's weird because the 51 version's the other version outside of the Muppet Christmas car that I see get top of the list a bunch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same.
Speaker 1:And don't get me wrong, Alistair Sims does a really good job.
Speaker 2:And I noticed it seems like Jim Carrey's version. He's kind of riffing off of Alistair's portrayal. I think so a little bit.
Speaker 1:But the things I don't like is they do a lot with the past. Again they kind of allude to Scrooge killed his mom in birth. Don't get me wrong. That's actually not a bad idea to add that depth to there right and give a reason why his dad's just thrown him in some boarding school and leaves him by himself every christmas and then the whole fred thing.
Speaker 1:That's actually a cool thing. That's not one of the things I hate. I think that's a good addition. I don't like all the stuff around like he and marley do a hostile takeover of fezzy wigs. Right, like he just like. Why do we have to add that he was like it kind of takes away from, like when he sees Fezziwig the first?
Speaker 2:time he's excited.
Speaker 1:there's Fezziwig, that's awesome he doesn't think about like dude, I screwed that guy over Cause in the books and the rest of the versions.
Speaker 2:Fezziwig is like the first sign of like.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is the first person in his life that he was like inspired. By.
Speaker 2:And it and then threw a party for everyone, Like a good example of someone you know on his dime, spent his money to spread Christmas cheer and it's like.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like this illusion of like what happened. You have this dude in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That was great. But like they do this hostile takeover in the 51 version, Then there's like this whole weird meeting where it's like they kind of allude if we had to make him like just straight up a criminal, we didn't have to make him tony soprano guys.
Speaker 2:Um, I will say this though um, I want to talk about, before we move on, mrs dilber, who is in the book.
Speaker 1:Okay, which is the maid. Okay, okay, and only in some versions has she ever actually shown having an interaction with scrooge yeah in the book. We only see her in the future when she's selling his bed sheets. You know, with the other three to the, you know they're like here's some stuff we stole from this dude's house and she straight up takes his bed curtains um which is. I don't know why the bed curtains are so symbolic or something, no just symbolic to this story, every version.
Speaker 2:It's like we have the bed curtains and yeah, you know, and I think it's just, it might be like a thing of like his, the fact it shows, like, how rich he is, how rich he is, and that she was willing to take a dead man's like bedding yeah, um and so.
Speaker 1:But, like in, my wife loves the jim carrey version of the end where he's dancing with her and she runs off screaming. Yeah, now the 51 version gives her more of an arc we do see him being shitty to her and we do get the character like her selling the bed sheets, but at the end he gives her. He also raises her salary he gives her Christmas present.
Speaker 1:Now the play I went to. They did one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Now this play lifted from a lot of versions, so I'm assuming they didn't come up with this because this is brilliant. They had the scene and, like I said, they lifted from the 51 version a lot because they did the hostile takeover of Fezziwigs and that goofiness.
Speaker 1:And in their version the whole cratchit family worked for scrooge and he were and he ran a coal factory not a money lending okay, I think just trying to call us more visible got it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:More evil, you know he had a lot of employees, not just bob okay um, but he made tiny tim work for him too more accurate to the times. Yeah and so yeah kind of and so like uh, but uh, what was I talking about? Was I talking about?
Speaker 2:you're talking about the way the baby this is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so at the end of the play version, though, he does the scene where he chases her around and like, and then he just wants to give her a Christmas present. And he's like and I'm raising your pay to whatever a weekend, and she's like what for? And he's like well, it's Christmas, you know. And then she actually comes back, though piece of holly, okay, and said this is all I have like, so, but merry christmas, and it's the piece he puts in his hat. And I was like dude, that's symbolic.
Speaker 1:We see that a lot yeah in like pictures of scrooge. At the end is that he has holly in his hat okay, so for this play to actually give it an origin. I thought was badass that's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's a sim, it's not.
Speaker 1:It doesn't feel forced yeah, no, it was a brilliant move by the play. I was like this should be in a lot of versions. I'm sure they. I mean, I don't know, I'm not trying to bash, cause that's the thing. Sometimes you run into the brilliant.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you run into the danger of how did Indy get his hat?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it either goes well, like in uh in the last crusade, or it's really bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where are the bed curtains? Ah, this is it. Yes, yes, yes, no, but I, I, I thought that was one of the coolest things I've seen this season, watching all these versions was the whole Holly thing.
Speaker 2:I was like that's pretty cool. Yeah, I think that's a good addition. Now there's a scene we've talked about before that never happens, or at least we haven't seen it, and it's after it's the bell sequence.
Speaker 1:It's the bell scene. It's the most gut-wrenching thing in the book. It is, it's horrific.
Speaker 2:It's watching the girl that got away.
Speaker 1:It's it's awful, and I mean like I got dumped on christmas eve once. So maybe I take this scene really personally, but like the fact that like there is like this this, like you know that, like I can associate heartbreak with christmas, that's my, that's my scrooge moment okay, okay um, there were like four christmases that were very fun for me, sure. Um, they're fun again, it's fine, and so like, uh, I mean they're okay, I don't really like Christmas. Anyways, I shouldn't put so much on that poor girl he's doing great.
Speaker 1:But the fact that in the book the Christmas past takes him to the school, takes him to Fezzy Wigs, we see the breakup. Yeah, I can't remember. Is there more in there?
Speaker 2:She walks away, she leaves after. He's like pretty much.
Speaker 1:You're just going to stay golden idol. You married a painless girl.
Speaker 2:The most haunting line like I hope you're happy with the life you've chosen.
Speaker 1:Yeah with the life you've chosen, and stuff like that. In the book, though it's not over, it's not over. Then she takes him to the fact that her home now it's still the past. But beyond that moment where he sees her, married and with kids and happy.
Speaker 2:And she talks about oh, I saw Scrooge today with kids and happy. And she talks about oh, I saw scrooge today, yeah or no? Her husband says it in the book. I saw your old friend, yeah, you know. And stuff like that and they're just talking about how he's sitting alone, he's just sitting alone in his little money lending house and stuff like that anytime you're a single man and you read this, it becomes a haunting image in your mind horrific, yeah, it's, you're like oh god, don't let this be me oh my god, it's, it's awful
Speaker 1:yeah and so like, in the fact that that gets written out of every version it's just too much it's.
Speaker 2:It's too much to take. It's. At that point dickinson's just beating it across. I have to make scrooge. You feel like shit about scrooge's life. But it.
Speaker 1:But like my thing is this though, and I think a hit or miss moment in the christmas carol is the opening scene with fred yeah, it's probably one of the best scenes in the whole story, because Fred's doing really, he's just really back and forth and all this stuff, and I think the only version I've ever seen where I feel like Scrooge is still holding on to Belle at his old age is Jim Carrey's.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because he says you fell in love. It's like he takes it personally that Fred is getting married. Yeah, and it's like he takes it personally that fred is getting married, yeah, and it's not like I feel like we're not supposed to get that. It's like, oh, you're wasting money on a wedding and another person. It's that he's still holding on to that heartbreak and I feel like by writing that scene out. We don't get that as much. That like I mean, we get it from the breakup.
Speaker 1:We get it, they broke up, he's alone, but like the fact that he he needed in the book to see her happy and moved on without him and kind of it's that whole being forced to see something that you thought you were going to be a part of yeah, you know like he thought he was going to be married to that girl and those were going to be his kids.
Speaker 1:But instead he chose the other path and then being forced to see her happiness and go, that could have been me, and I'm literally just living alone in a house with a lot of money that's useless it's a nightmare, yeah, and but like there goes, like that's why fred's in love and that's why fred doesn't care about money. Only this woman yeah, he like in that moment.
Speaker 2:It's that point where he's like shit, fred's right and it adds to the layer too, because fred reminds scrooge of his sister too like his his personality and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you get that moment where she died a married woman and she had children. He said yeah, your nephew Fred you know, and stuff like that and so like, and you kind of. You know, the 51 version has a weird death scene with Fran or Fan where she's like, take care of my boy, Promise and he doesn't. So but yeah, you want a horror Christmas girl. I want a Christmas girl with just the scene intact. We add that scene to it.
Speaker 1:We have to go that deep, damn it Like. Let us see Scrooge at his lowest.
Speaker 2:I want to feel pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for real. And so, and again, I could be biased at a horrible Christmas heartbreak. Maybe I just want to relive it, I don't know.
Speaker 2:And so You're. So what was it called Masochist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just masochist, like, take me back to that Christmas Eve.
Speaker 2:I want to feel.
Speaker 1:And so, but like it's, it's. I do hate that we never see that.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:The thing that I picked up out of reading it this time that I've never seen in a version and this is really short and I understand why present. I didn't realize that he takes scrooge all around the world in the book. Okay, he's like showing people like in a lighthouse by himself, like singing christmas carols.
Speaker 2:He's just showing that the christmas spirit is everywhere this is a montage. It's kind of a montage scene. It's like one paragraph but it talks about all the places it adds to the budget too much he goes, I mean it's kind of like, even in the book you're kind of like oh, this is like a weird, this doesn't really fit well, the rest of the story, but I get the point that's trying to be made.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's like look, you don't need anything to experience christmas. Here's all these lonely people enjoying christmas.
Speaker 2:You know who which movie does that well? Which movie the muppet christmas carol does the? Whole song is just a montage of him walk around like the cheese for the mises oh yeah and then they're dancing everybody's. The poor people are having fun, basically despite being poor, they do.
Speaker 1:They do a good job of that. So, um, all right cool are we?
Speaker 2:I'm ready? Are we ready? I'm ready? So explain to people what we are doing again.
Speaker 1:Just one more time okay, so we're just going to go through the main characters of this there's like 10 or 11 um and then we just want to talk about our favorite versions of them yeah, from the versions we've seen, yes this is not us casting a modern cast.
Speaker 2:This is not us going to a year. This is us basically doing our bill and ted rules, just exclusive to the people, we can create our own perfect christmas carol out of the people who have played the characters already.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we're gonna cartoon drug all-star this and it can be any cartoons, it can be muppets and it can be humans, perfect, so yeah it's gonna be a real trip so um, before we start, there's only one version that has charles dickens in it yes so do we just automatically.
Speaker 1:I wrote it down gonzo, charles dickens, gonzo with riso is the best. That's the only way to do it, yeah, which I think is why also one of the reasons it gets praised so much yes is. You have charles dickens. It's the only version version Charles Dickens is narrating yes, look exactly and I love it.
Speaker 2:But it's also Gonzo and Rizzo and like they're. They're at their peak, like duo form in the 90s also you have like I cannot.
Speaker 1:I cannot tell you enough what that meant to me as a kid because Gonzo's my favorite Muppet for him to get a leading role, basically leading role, yes, of what Probably the most popular movie.
Speaker 2:I was so excited when he was on because he got that and then he was also yeah. Muppet Treasure Island, and then you had the Gonzo like movie about his origins? Oh yeah, in space 90s was very good to Gonzo it was.
Speaker 1:It was I love Gonzo man.
Speaker 2:And so he is automatically in, lock him in. I mean, he's not going to do better than Gonzo, he's not? It's true, it's the great Gonzo who played him.
Speaker 1:I think it's the dude that played Beast in the live action.
Speaker 2:Oh, Dan Stevens. I think it's Dan Stevens. That's not a great attribute to make me like him.
Speaker 1:I know you love the. I liked the live action being the Beast Moving on to.
Speaker 2:So we'll get into our actual list here. So let's just start from the bottom. Fezzewig you insisted, we do Fezzewig.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I just think Fezzewig's a good character.
Speaker 2:He is.
Speaker 1:He's one scene, but it's a big scene.
Speaker 2:It's a firecracker of a role. You have to come in with hair on fire. You have to come in guns blazing man. It's just. You come in, you get one really good moment, your meatloaf in, uh, rocky horror picture show better analogy.
Speaker 1:You get to sing and dance and set the tone, and then they're like and then he got old and died and scrooge took over. Yeah, and so, um, who do you have? I swear if you say fozzie bear, but this whole thing is just you and the muppet. I know because. If so, just tell me that it's muppet.
Speaker 2:Christmas care, okay so the thing often, so oftentimes, when they do cartoon episodes and things like this, is you're always like, oh well, who's gonna play each role of this, you know, and sometimes they nail it and sometimes they don't. And I see people online always going like, well, this muppet should play this or this mickey mouse character would play that. I do think the mickey mouse one kind of nailed it, because it's a nice throwback it's mr toad. So it's a nice throwback and, like mr toad, is a very underrated he really is.
Speaker 1:Mr toad is severely underrated.
Speaker 2:He's a lot of fun, like I remember him just being pure chaos, and so it's great. Fozzy is just being fozzy. That's literally what it is. He's with his mom, so it just it. It works. He's good, though it's good. And then the other one, because that's the only thing.
Speaker 1:The other one that I know and like that comes to mind is also like bob hoskins in 2009 bob hoskins kills it in the 2009 version, which is when we just have to say jim carrey version, yeah, um so, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2:I'm just just because I know I don't have that many on the list. I'll just go, mr toad, it's a solid, it's a solid. I think it's just because he's, it's, the, it's, again, it's. That's the whole thing of like when you bring it together cartoon all-stars like that to retell the is, you're like I gotta see this character, who they're gonna pull out to play this character, kind of thing so um I have bob hoskins as my favorite fuzzy wig and who I would put, but I'm gonna give a shout out to to ian mcneese okay who's the?
Speaker 1:probably one of the only highlights of the and I'm sorry, I'm not trying to trash this version. I think every version is good in its own way, because the story's perfect okay but the patrick stewart version wasn't my favorite okay, it's a little 2 tv 99 version. Yeah, it's a little 2 tv movie okay um the uh, and I thought ian mcneese did a great job as fuzzy wick in his one scene what people know in mcneese from oh gosh, he's one of those that guys.
Speaker 2:He's one of the guys yeah, um niece.
Speaker 1:I mean, he kind of looks like hagrid kind of, but he's not. Yeah, okay, did I spell his name right mcneese actor uh actor, if I could it's like mcneese, like niece like oh, like a niece.
Speaker 2:Okay, got it other than e before the I.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes but yeah, I could see him in these man. I don't tell you what he's in he's just in a lot of things. Yeah, ace ventura he's ace ventura dude he's in the tv version nature calls he's the dude running around with jim carrey the whole movie okay, got it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, there we go. Okay, there you go nice, nice, nice, nice. We are cinephiles um, mrs cratchit, or emily cratchit, as I found out today, that's she does have a name, which is good. I'm glad dickens gave her a name. Um, you know, the 2019 series. I was going to do a little shout out because it did give miss cratchit a bigger role, I felt like.
Speaker 1:Is that the creepy version? It's the creepy version, it gave her a bigger role.
Speaker 2:Vanette robinson plays her in that okay, does a decent job, okay, uh. Then you got miss piggy in the muppet version, uh, and I felt like that was the first time I saw her have like a full character.
Speaker 2:But I mean, it's just miss piggy but, like a stern kind of like frustrated mr scrooge, like I don't know why you deal with that guy and it's like because it's a job, it's because otherwise we're poor. But then I also like when, with Scrooge, how they kind of switched it up and like she's not married to the Bob Cratchit in that movie, she's just a single mom with a mute child, basically, or like he hasn't talked in a long time.
Speaker 1:Played by Alfre Woodard, yeah, sc. As a Mrs Cratchit, but there is a Bob Cratchit also character in it. That's completely unrelated. Completely unrelated, because that's Bobcat Goldways. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:I will say the interesting thing that people have brought up about the Muppet movie is that it's the first time you see, I think, kermit and Piggy married with a family. Yes, of pigs and frogs and they answered the question like okay, guys are frogs, girls are pigs. That's, we're just we're not even going to address this.
Speaker 1:You don't think like there was like some serious like meetings. How do we wait? It's like all right, jim's been dead for for a minute, 12 years, yeah how do we handle this? Are they mutants? Green pigs, and then you just have to imagine, like what's his name? Who? What's his son's name?
Speaker 2:uh, his son's name is I need to know brian b need to know Brian. Brian Hanson I was going to say Chris Hanson. I was like no, that's the guy that buzzed pedophiles. Yeah, yeah, just have a seat right here, mr Frog.
Speaker 1:So I think Brian Hanson walked in and said guys, guys, boys are frogs girls are pigs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they went. Oh brilliant.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, great. The dark crystal guy went back to his drawing board. Never mind, never mind, it's okay, like doing the little neck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one day he's actually bringing in the puppet someone's rolling and he's like so all right, so, but my pick, I'll go. I'll go alfre woodard because I just like I like the it's. It's a good like change up of the character.
Speaker 2:I'm glad youizing that way, because I'm sorry, but the amount of time Scrooge is going to show up on my list is baffling even to me it's, it's yeah, I didn't realize how much I liked Scrooge so I started making this list like oh, oh yeah um, I actually like Hermione Baddely Baddely from the uh 1951 version um she's just very old Hollywood um from the 51 version.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I liked her yeah, but that's not my pick okay my pick is Miss Piggy okay, perfect, and I just think it's because Miss Piggy gets her moment yes. I think it's the first time I've seen mrs Piggy get like just a real moment where she's not playing a diva right, it's not she's.
Speaker 2:I mean she is tied to Kermit, but it's not in the usual like I'm obsessing over you. We're having relationship issues. She got the frog man, she got the frog.
Speaker 1:They have a family and she's a caring mom, it's true she's pissed about our husband being treated to work for sure so it's like miss piggy finally got a role with some meat to it. Yeah, some pork, if you will.
Speaker 2:Um fred nephew fred fred, wow, okay, so fred's like one of the best characters he's just, he's the paul rudd would play him in some version, that's's got Paul Rudd energy.
Speaker 1:That's really good actually.
Speaker 2:He's just a golden retriever of a man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:And especially the Muppet version. He's played by Steve McIntosh and that's really what he's known for, but he does, he just has that very happy-go-lucky attitude. Donald weirdly plays the nephew, but it's because it's McDuck Scrooge. Mcduck is is the main guy, yeah, but, and that normally donald's the angry one, but yeah, and he has the horse, which is fun from wind in the willows, so. But I was going to point out john murray, uh, who plays, uh, james cross, because it's not ebenezer scrooge, it's cross in his last name is cross, and so in scrooge.
Speaker 2:But I liked it because not only was it his literal, actual, brother literally yeah, which is fun, but it's all and like he's playing his brother in the movie yeah but he also kind of adds a little more pathos to the character, like in the sense of like I'm worried about my brother.
Speaker 2:I hope he's doing well. Everybody else is like why are you putting up with this guy? And you're like, because he's family, because I want him to be like. You kind of get that he has concern for his brother in the story, which is true amongst the others, but it's a little more like I really love you, uncle, please come hang out with us. You know like, and he's like ah, whatever I might, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and there's a disappointment that you get to see like there's a scene where they literally have his casket, open casket or whatever, and he's crying at Scrooge's funeral because the main thing is that no one goes. But I'll go John Murray for my pick. So who do you have?
Speaker 1:I really like Barry McKay from the 38 version, but I think Colin Firth in the 2009 Jim Carrey version Okay. It's just perfect man. Colin Firth, the King's Speech guy right, yeah, colin Firth just nails it man.
Speaker 2:Okay, from 2009.
Speaker 1:Yeah, colin Firth, is it for me the way you said, paul Rudd? I always thought Cary Elvis should have gotten a shot. And Cary Elvis is in the 2009 version, but he's older.
Speaker 2:That's right. Which?
Speaker 1:is weird because I think Gary Oldman plays Tiny Tim. I don't really think. I guess the age shouldn't have mattered, but Cary Elvis does play the Dick Wilkins from Peskywigs and the charity collector that shows up, got it Okay.
Speaker 2:Interesting, interesting. Okay, marley, the first ghost to appear. There's a lot of good ones. It feels like anytime they make a movie there's like guys, we have to make this entrance and everything really good. Some notable, like the Michael Horton one. Michael Horton from 51, I feel like it was a little more like pomp and stuff and he definitely was over the top in his performance. He didn't have all the bells and whistles as much like Alec Guinness in 1970, which I thought was a pretty solid one. Like he does have the change and stuff and like floats, which really like terrifies the Scrooge. Like that's the point he screams and terrifies Scrooge that's in the 51 version, that's in the 1970.
Speaker 2:yeah, the 70 version does kind of a weird thing, yeah yeah, but like Statler and Waldorf in the Muppet movie, like that one is scary. I love Statler and Waldorf Like they're funny, but I remember watching it being like and it's the best song. It's one of the top tier.
Speaker 1:Marley, and Marley is the best song in the movie.
Speaker 2:I argue that. And the love is gone. But that one scene that's true with the bell and her new husband you're right, you're right, you're right, but then we wouldn't be crying that's true, I would be crying. I mean, we don't. Yes, we'd be crying more in a bad way. I'd be clutching my chest on the ground. I do love lou from scrooge, though his body's rotting away.
Speaker 1:He's got like golf balls coming out of him.
Speaker 2:It's weird it's a very cool interpretation of the character, but even like goofy is fun, the best makeup for sure, like I honestly think yeah, but yeah, like styler ward off, like that was a nightmarish for me as a kid.
Speaker 1:I remember like it's creepy, yeah, like especially when they're being back, dragged back down by the chains and stuff so I think, like marley is important to the movie because it does set a tone that this is going to be kind of freaky. Yeah, it's, it's the first ghost and he's by far the scariest ghost, other than maybe the future you're yet to come but you know, but like it's creepy but future is a less is more approach.
Speaker 2:Like he usually, he's just the caped dude pointing, pointing direction, and this is like no, I'm gonna scare you, but marley's literally a haunted house moment, because you're in your home, it's dark.
Speaker 1:It's creepy. You just have a fire or a candle while you're eating your gruel yeah and all of a sudden the ghost of your dead partner just shows up and he's covered in chains and he's pretty much saying like and this is your future and your chain is a ponderous chain.
Speaker 2:It's longer than this yeah you know, and so like it's, it's just freaky so, um, it, definitely because it, because scrooge is sitting there. Like you know, there's more gravy than the grave of you and, like it's, you have to establish no, this is real, it's not a dream, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, um, did you give me a defense?
Speaker 2:I was leaning alec guinness, but after it's between alec guinness and lou, because I just I don't want, I'm worried, I'm just going to keep picking muppets hey man, this is your version. Dude, get just just just your version it's the muppets, like they were the scariest. As long as it's not all muppets, because then you could just told me up top.
Speaker 1:You could have just said I'm voting I'm just picking the muppets.
Speaker 2:You could have checked the.
Speaker 1:Muppet box on your ballot. Man Like and we could have just been done.
Speaker 2:I could have talked about my people.
Speaker 1:So you've mixed it up enough, okay. Okay, so who's your pick? Um man, I think Gary Oldman kills it in the 2009 version he plays.
Speaker 2:He also plays. Yeah, Gary Oldman plays a bunch of people.
Speaker 1:He plays Cratchit, tiny Tim and Marley. Okay, um, at least the face scan. I don't think he voices Tony Terry. Okay, that's good. That's good, like it's his face facial thing. You know, but I'm going and I had the speed watch. I saw it years ago. Okay, it's really good version is the George C Scott version.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a solid version.
Speaker 1:It's a really solid version from the 80s but, like Frank Finlay, is freaking terrifying in that version. And I was speed watching it because I couldn't fit. It was like I had like an hour one day. I was like I'm going to kind of like go through this and all the characters. And man, that scene freaks me out. So I think Frank Finlay is my definitive.
Speaker 2:The first time I saw the 2009 version with Carrie. It's the first time I realized that his jaw was like unhinged.
Speaker 1:And that's why he's tied. It is in the book that he does have like the scarf wrapped around his hand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you always see it in the cartoons.
Speaker 1:You're like I never knew what the purpose of the poofy has that, and so yeah, yeah, so it is creepy, for sure, for sure, for sure um, okay, cool up, next we have uh, this one was easy the one that got away.
Speaker 2:Bell. Uh, basically, like I said earlier, daisy they do a lot with, not with minimal time with daisy in the role. Uh, kieran allen and scrooge is a different version. That's very likable. Merith braun from the muppets.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, but that it's just gut-wrenching yeah and she does such a good job of being like a, a vision of like innocence and like true love and all of that. And so when she just decides to walk away, and again, if you watch this movie and you aren't aware of it, they took out her song which, like makes it all worth the while. And if you go on disney plus, now you can choose, like the extended cut, basically where it has it.
Speaker 1:It was on like the vhs version um, all right, ma'am, I kind of have a tie I really couldn't pick between these two. Two reasons I like clear phillips, the bell from scrooged, played by karen allen, okay, just because she has a way bigger role.
Speaker 2:She's all throughout the movie yes, right, you know it's. It's more like there's also a chance that you there is a redemptive, at the end he gets yes, like it's kind of yeah. Again it's like, oh, isn't that nice yeah all the other versions, like no, you're screwed and you're probably gonna be alone. Yeah, she got remarried.
Speaker 1:And like she doesn't even think about you anymore, other than that you're lonely yes and so um, and she dodged a bullet that's what you are to that woman and so um. So I do like that version. Um, we see a lot more of their past. She's going on the journey with them, kind of in the present. Um. And then, yeah, but robin wright from the 2009 version. When I think of bell I think of buttercup from the princess bride that's fair so like, that's who it is in my head nick yeah when I read that I see robin wright pin.
Speaker 1:Is she still pan? No, no, no, she's robin wright, you know and so yeah, that is just bell to me that's fair. That makes sense, yeah so there's a world where carrie elvis and her are both in a version of this and just being great yeah, you know, we can make it happen fred, she's being bell, it's great I'm down, I'm down, I'm down.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we're normally, we have, like our, you know, 30 or less.
Speaker 1:So this would technically be like our top six, I guess yeah, but we're gonna start with like the main yeah, these are the main people yeah, so tiny tim, I'm just gonna go straight for the punch here.
Speaker 2:Uh, robin from the muppets is what an easy pick. Uh, I thought that nicholas phillips from scrooge was wait is the, does the? Little frog have a name robin. It says it Robin. It's actually Kermit's nephew, Robin, but he plays Tiny Tim in the movie.
Speaker 1:I wasn't aware. Yeah, you're actually going to have to help me with mine.
Speaker 2:But Nicholas Phillips in Scrooge he doesn't talk the whole movie because of. I believe there was a tragedy, or it's like when his dad died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like he's just, he's mean yeah.
Speaker 2:Which I love. God bless us line. At the end he reminds, he reminds bill murray, like this is the line, say the line, so that's great. Um, and then I did note from the 70s version that tiny tim was actually likable. Like it's the first time you really put a bigger spotlight on him okay, in an earlier movie, um, but I'll go with. I'll go with that one, just because I was like this is an earlier version. That didn't annoy me okay richard.
Speaker 1:Richard beaumont was his name I have a lot of thoughts about Tiny Tim.
Speaker 2:Okay. It's an integral role for what is kind of?
Speaker 1:honestly, a little bit of a small part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's only in a few scenes. Well, he's an iconic character too, and he gets the final line. It's always.
Speaker 1:Terry Kilburn in the 38 version was very like hit or miss. I couldn't tell the kid was chewing up scenery.
Speaker 2:Kid actors are hard.
Speaker 1:And almost like he was going a little too fast for a kid on Crudges half the time Okay, okay. It's just like that kid practiced, he was moving, but he just, he was really bouncy and I'm kind of like. I kind of like it because it's the spirit of the character, but also like your kid actor and you're kind of annoying.
Speaker 2:And so your pick is the kid from the robot, kid from Futurama right.
Speaker 1:So I want to shout out Terry Gilburn because he is an actor that really gets associated with it. But I also like Calvin Cooley, nicholas Phillips, a lot because I like what they do with the. He doesn't have a physical disability. He has like a mutism. And so that. So God bless us everyone.
Speaker 2:It's the biggest payoff of any version, because he doesn't talk Right and he doesn't die and he's a trauma victim.
Speaker 1:So in every other version, Tiny Tim's just like this real beam of positivity for a kid with a disability and Bob Cratchit's saying oh, he hopes people see him in church, not because he's a cripple, but so he can remind them that Jesus made lame people walk.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's that kind of thing, whereas in this he's a trauma victim and speak. He's not a beaver sunshine until christmas spirit nails at the end. There you go, and so um, but my pick in. I'm sorry, I didn't know that robin the frog was a name, but you can tell me if little mickey mouse has a name I don't know if he does I don't know if there's any lore around is that is the little mickey, your pick dude.
Speaker 1:He's the most adorable, tiny tim. Oh for sure, like you just want to pick him up and hold him and it's crushing.
Speaker 2:It's so crushing when they're in the cemetery and he's just hold and mickey's just holding the crutch it's the.
Speaker 1:It's the worst man, it's the most. So many versions just show the the crutch in the corner. But mickey mouse holding the crutch at the gravesite it's pretty rough.
Speaker 2:He's the worst, yes, and like just the look on his face, like why don't we have a mickey mouse movie, like a full feature movie? I keep asking because they nailed it. I guess they nailed it in 40 minutes. They're like we can't do it.
Speaker 1:There's no way to do a full length feature here and so, like dang dude I, I think it's the best version of tiny tim is the little mickey mouse version that's fair, because he is it's the most sympathetic. It's the. It's just the one that really nails it for me, but it is so freaking scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or I mean it's so heartbreaking, that's fair. That's fair. It doesn't seem like he's a character.
Speaker 1:So there's no lore there. Hanson was really good about giving these people names, disney characters. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, is it?
Speaker 2:Oh, so it. So it's Morty Fieldmouse who plays. He portrays the role of Tiny Tim in Mickey's Christmas Carol.
Speaker 1:You're making that up. It's right here in the wiki Morty Fieldmouse Wow Okay, so my pick is Morty. He's got a brother named Ferdy.
Speaker 2:He does. Oh, his sister, mickey's twin nephews.
Speaker 1:Oh, so they all have nephews, okay.
Speaker 2:So they're just a bunch of millennials yeah, who's mickey's brother who had?
Speaker 1:who's their father?
Speaker 2:he's continuity since then.
Speaker 1:Donald duck's triplet nephews yeah, goofy's son uh so only goofy's a non-virgin he's the only, the only non-kid, the only one with a kid when I actually had like, yeah, oh, yeah, max mickey mouse doesn't have a brother in the traditional sense but where does this cartoon character, does he have a?
Speaker 2:sister. Does he have? Wait, we didn't think about that. Wait, who's Oswald the Lucky Rabbit?
Speaker 1:No, oswald, the Lucky Rabbit that's the original character Like that's.
Speaker 2:Felicity Fieldmouse is Mickey's older sister and the mother.
Speaker 1:So is Mickey's name.
Speaker 2:Fieldmouse.
Speaker 1:Maybe. So he just dropped it for Hollywood because Fieldmouse was. It's too ethnic. Yeah, yeah, it's like we gotta simplify. You can't fit it Into a billboard?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and then dropping Like the stein or the bird it's like if They'd done the Fievel Maus, I can't even say Mauskowitz, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's because Fievel Maus, yeah, yeah, it's exactly that. So he just dropped it. So he didn't get Any when he was starting out.
Speaker 2:There you go Okay, all right, we learned something, corey, mickey Mouse is Jewish, I guess.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, so the Ghost of Christmas Past Corey. That's the movie I want, where Mickey Mouse escaped the Holocaust and then came over here and made something of himself. It's a success story. It's called American Dale, but I want it with Mickey Mouse. Donald Duck was a Nazi once.
Speaker 2:We don't talk about that, all right. Oh yeah, we don't talk about that, okay, that's why he went to South America for a while.
Speaker 1:Which, in all fairness, he was a bad dream.
Speaker 2:It's true, it was a bad dream. Yes, yeah, it was a nightmare for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a nightmare.
Speaker 2:Okay, Everyone's like what are they talking about in Scrooge played by David we?
Speaker 1:moved on to the Christmas past. You gave no build up that we were to the Christmas past.
Speaker 2:I just was trying to transition as easy as possible.
Speaker 1:You didn't want to talk about Nazis and Disney anymore. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:Enough Holocaust jokes. It wasn't a joke, so the Ghost of Christmas Past, okay, got it. I'm torn between David Johansson in Scrooge as the cab driver, because he's just hilarious.
Speaker 1:He's great.
Speaker 2:And then the Muppets version, which is probably the most like ethereal, interesting way to do something, like the work behind it, especially it being like an early 90s movie. You still sit there and go like how is this possible?
Speaker 1:I also love David Johansson's version because it's great. It's very New York.
Speaker 2:It's very different.
Speaker 1:It's very different. And also he was the lead singer of the new york dolls, so um is that your pick? No, I'm going with michael dolan from 1951 oh, from 1951 I like the long hair old man I didn't, I didn't vibe with it as much because it's kind of a weird paradox, like he just looks like a vibrant old man because he's supposed to be ageless, so you can't tell if he's young or old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay interesting.
Speaker 2:Okay, I get what you're saying. Um, I'm gonna go with the. I'll go, david johansson. I think both are great I'm glad he's in, but it's, he's just, he's just so entertaining as well. And that's the thing too, is that through that whole movie they're just beating the crap out of bill murray they are and it's great, it's great, it's great physical humor for sure, I mean because, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:Like there's this one, it's those are the only two that I really stood out to me in any version of of it. It's either like it's a woman, like in one version, and she's not even like really like 38 version has a woman.
Speaker 1:Albert finney's version had a woman right I think so, uh, but she was like a woman wearing there's like a red dress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just a red dress it was just yeah, it was very uninspired, for sure, but yeah, yeah, I think those two just stand out because they're so different, or they're just so well done.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Are you ready to move on to the Ghost Christmas Present? Yes, let's do it I don't know if you have any other notes.
Speaker 1:I don't have any Christmas.
Speaker 2:Present. There's just a very visible, iconic. Look to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really doesn't differentiate much from version to version.
Speaker 2:Version of version. It's the one that really kind of stays intact the most, except for scrooge, because it's the fairy played by carol cain excellently also beats the crap out of bill murray yes, very, very awesome version, and again, I'm torn between tradition and what's funny, but like, I just think the muppets version like it's, like it's just a giant puppet.
Speaker 2:It's a giant puppet, but like it's like the fact that they made new creations, I think was a genius stroke for the movie, because if you'd had scooter or gonzo or fozzie or somebody playing it, it just wouldn't have had the same impact. Now you've got a whole brand new character that doesn't have the remnants of the past movies and stuff tied to them, you know. So I'm gonna go with that guy who voiced him and I had his name written down but he disappeared. But it's jerry nelson who actually also voiced tiny tim that ass I think it's a different.
Speaker 2:Hard to tell who's the performer and who is the voice, but that seems to be. He seems to have played multiple roles in that movie. But anyway, who did you have in mind for ghost of christmas present?
Speaker 1:like you said, this one's like very. It kind of stays the same throughout most versions other than scrooged um, which I love, but I do kind of stays the same throughout most versions other than Scrooged, which I love, but I do kind of want to stick with tradition on this one. I don't normally bow to nostalgia that much, but I really do like the Mickey version, which is just the giant from the from Mickey and the Beanstalk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Mickey and the.
Speaker 1:Beanstalk. I just remember him peeking through the bed curtain was terrifying to me as a kid. It was very effective, like him being a giant, and I love the sequence where they're basically walking through like town and he opens the roof to see and somebody screams and he shuts, he's like wrong door, wrong door, and that's kind of my pick, yeah, even though, uh, I really like jim carrey's version too who plays him in jim carrey.
Speaker 2:Jim, that's right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, that's a wild. The whole. That whole movie is just a fever dream, just like polar express, because they just do all kinds of weird stuff but they do the ignorance and want thing really well.
Speaker 1:But I think jim carrey does the voice. Jim carrey's kind of a phenomenal actor for a guy that gets pegged he is, one note, very, very underrated, yes and so I I like his version a lot, but I kind of just want to go with the giant from okay, because I do think it's just fun them walking through living up the roofs sometimes with those those type of like we're putting these characters in this story.
Speaker 2:It is all about like the, the stunt casting, or like what's the most unique way to do this. And they I think that's why that one is so good is because like, yeah, mr toad fits perfectly right here, the giant like we can have fun dynamically with stuff I really like it, um, and I think, like it's just, I have just really it's just one of my earliest memories just him peeking through the bed curtain, sitting on the job, all the stuff yeah, and all the and it just, it just stuck with me for sure.
Speaker 2:All right, the ghost of christmas, future cory um, this is a tie for me.
Speaker 1:Okay, I just have the muppets version. It's very creepy yes and then also scrooged this version.
Speaker 2:They're both the generally the same but I do love the scrooge one where it's like I like that he opens it and there's the little things in there.
Speaker 2:It's pretty great. I'm pretty much on the same fence. The other ones I noted just that were funny was dino. Was it in the flintstones one? You don't know it till it's over because it's the flintstone one they're putting on. The play of the christmas carol and fred has been thrown in and gets an ego for playing scrooge. But Dino plays the Christmas future and then Bugs Bunny kind of is the ghost of Christmas future to mess with Yosemite Sam Scrooge. He goes up and down the halls like in a trench coat, kind of ring-wraith looking thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I'm on the same fence. We can just agree that those are our picks is Scrooge and the Muppets, because they just both nail the aesthetic perfectly.
Speaker 1:For me it's just like Jim Carrey and the Muppets one are both perfect and they're great. They're both terrifying in their own way. They do a lot of cool stuff with the shadows. Yeah, With the, the, the the Jim Carrey version, but, like I, kind of just like the live action version of the, the Muppets one.
Speaker 2:It's just creepy and it's like the world just melts. Yeah, as they're walking is one of the craziest visuals I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:And then I think the reason I probably lean a little bit more towards the scrooge version is because it's such a bland aesthetic it's just a hooded figure they do so much with it, like the things on the inside, um, and then the fact that it's tv is a face and it's a character who's obsessed with his.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love higher. Yeah, I love the tv aspect to it I think that's really creative okay, last two. So bob cratchit, there's a lot of good options, you know. Again I said you could put paul rudd as bob cratchit, but I think you need someone a little more. Martin freeman played him in like a this weird play version. I know it's okay, gary oldman's played him in the past.
Speaker 1:Uh, we've talked about bobcat goldwith actually martin freeman would be a good bob cratchit. I mean, I don't like him, but he would be a good bob cratchit david warner in the 84 version.
Speaker 2:I thought was pretty decent david warner he's, he's one, again he's another, like if you see him, you'll know who oh, david warner, no, I mean, but what version?
Speaker 1:in the 84 version oh, I didn't know that that was david warner. Okay, that's cool, but yeah, he's in star david warner. Yeah, star trek. For those of you that don't know, he was the original freddy krueger original freddy krueger.
Speaker 2:I did not know that he was recast before they I guess they started as a martin mcfly situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's in titanic. He's a makeup test.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's he's spicer, lovejoy and titanic, which, if you don't know the names of titan, he's the guy that works for Billy Zane.
Speaker 1:He's Billy Zane's right-hand man dude. Yeah, exactly. Oh, he's in Tron. Secret of the Ooze, anybody? Secret of the Ooze. He's the scientist. Oh, okay, okay, he's the one that makes Tokar and Rezar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay okay, all right, but really for childhood purposes? Mickey and Kermit, yeah Pretty much perfect casting, for that's probably like day one. They're like these, this kermit's playing him bob cratchit yeah mickey's playing him. It's mickey's christmas carol. We can't have mickey play scrooge, because that doesn't make sense hard.
Speaker 1:I would have loved it. I would like to see the I'm who, you who?
Speaker 2:who are you picking?
Speaker 1:um, I have only one, okay uh gene lockhart from the 1938 version was just above and beyond for me he's. He seemed a little older, he was a little bit older, a little pudgier and stuff, but, like I again, I think it had a lot to do with the fact that in that version he's fired and it's just. You're seeing a dude who knows that, like the, the, uh, the path in front of him looks dark and scary, but he's, he's not gonna let him take christmas from him, it's gene rockhart.
Speaker 2:Uh, gene lockhart lockhart.
Speaker 1:Okay yeah, I thought he did great nice. Um, I really liked that version, the 1938 version of bob cratchit, I think, like I think it's, and you really capture his whole family like man yeah, aesthetic that you get again like gary oldman dude, he kills every part in the 2009 version. I think he's an incredible bob cratchit, because it's just, it's gary oldman yeah and he's just good at everything but, like I. Just I don't know.
Speaker 2:Gene lockhart got it for me for sure I'm gonna go kermit just because I think of the two. Like the mickey and kermit, kermit does have just that spirit in him. That's like the never, yeah, never give up, never, never let the negativity get to him. Mickey. Mickey's more of a blank slate at times, but kermit always just has that endearing quality to him.
Speaker 2:Like kermit has more of a personality than mickey mouse yeah like he's a little more depth than mickey mouse because the problem was when they made I've talked to people about this is that when they gave donald his his temperament, they gave goofy his like his uh, shenanigans and stuff, so like mickey kind of just became blank he's the spirit of disney.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's the straight man to all of it and kermit is a straight man but it's in a humorous way. He still like, gets impatient. He'll have freak out moments and stuff. He has a a pig lover. So there's a lot of interesting elements to kermit going on as well. So I'm going Kermit, because he's also just the songs he sings, like One More Sleep Till Christmas, the song that they sing at the dinner table in the Christmas present segment. But even his speech when Tiny Tim's gone and he gives the. This is the first passing amongst us line and stuff and it does a really good If you also think about it. I believe is it Brian brian that's playing kermit, after jim henson played him.
Speaker 1:Uh, I don't remember who did. It would have been him or frank oz, probably probably not frank.
Speaker 2:I need to back up and see don't.
Speaker 1:Don't give me attitude about frank oz, but but I like frank oz.
Speaker 2:I didn't say anything wrong about. Frank oz goes to christmas and we gotta, we gotta dive in here. We're a podcast, we're professionals, we know what we're doing. But also the cool thing about the muppet christmas carol movie is that's it was the scene where he's walking with tiny tim on his shoulders. Have you ever seen the behind the scenes of that, steve whitmire? Steve whitmire, yeah.
Speaker 2:So talk about a bird and having to play an icon after an icon passes yeah but this, the whole segment where they're walking like it's a rolling scene and they're, and kermit's feet are moving because we have the bike scene from the original Muppet movie.
Speaker 1:that blows people's minds, man when you read the amount of voices these people do and how unalike those voices are, that's wild.
Speaker 2:It's pretty crazy Cool. Last one, yep Scrooge, scrooge himself, all right, and I had a side note that I would like to see Harrison Ford play Scrooge at some point, just because he's a cranky old man.
Speaker 1:He can't do the ending man. There's no way. That's true. That's the problem, isn't it? He can't act all giddy, he can't be happy.
Speaker 2:That is the requirement. So you've got, you know, scrooge. Mcduck's played him, jim Carrey's played him, fred Flintstone has played Scrooge, mr Magoo has played Scrooge. Yes, the same mindset of like. Let's go back and watch some of these old ones.
Speaker 1:Albert finney was the worst albert finney was just kind of a character yeah, alistair sim, I think did a really good job, great. I get why people call him the definitive.
Speaker 2:I get it, yeah, and I think george t scott did well too. He really did. I thought he did fine. And then guy pierce was just dark and brooding and ryan reynolds was kind of a modern day scrooge. He in the scrooge kind of it's. It's more like that. It's like a 2023 scrooged almost. But mine comes down to a little bit of childhood, a little bit of the new. So it's bill murray versus michael cain for me. Okay, I think bill murray it's bill murray and like he just leans into his more like over the top personality, like that we see him do in ghostbusters and groundhog day, where he has a transformative moment at the end, like in groundhog day. But michael kane is just like I feel like he, if you were pulling him out of a book and you're trying to vision scrooge, like he's him to a t in my opinion like from.
Speaker 2:He doesn't have funny moments as much, but like the fact that he goes on the journey and the arc so well like he's, it's believable at the end when he is full of joy and ready to yeah to take on the world in a new light um, so yours is michael caine I think. So I think, I think I'm gonna go. Michael caine that's fair.
Speaker 1:I like all the credit in the world that people now like. Give the guy credit because he showed up and played it as serious as a heart attack literally his words around muppets yes, like, and it was played it as straight as possible.
Speaker 1:Like to his credit, he said I'm taking this as seriously as I possibly can. Yeah, and very few actors would have done it. They would have played off the muppets, they would have riffed, they would have not taken it seriously. It was a paycheck. He was like nope, this is real I saw a meme.
Speaker 2:It said, like michael caine treated the muppets as real people, tim curry believed he was a muppet in muppet treasure island.
Speaker 1:And that's the difference, and they both work they do both work um, so you kind of give me all these people that you would have put in there. Let me tell you this In a perfect world I'd have had Gene Wilder as a Bob Cratchit.
Speaker 2:I would have loved Gene Wilder as a Bob Cratchit. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Around the time of Wonka. Just give it to me.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:And so. But instead we were getting Albert Finney and bull crap in 1980. Or 1970. And so for Scrooge, give me, like 90s, 2000s, jack Nicholson or Gene Hackman as a Scrooge in a perfect world.
Speaker 2:That'd be great, because they can both be crazy at that. Yeah, yes, jack Nicholson would have been an incredible Scrooge. Would have been a great Scrooge. He's an asshole.
Speaker 1:He looks like an asshole. But at the end when he's got to be nuts. It's ready, it's perfect, and so and I think gene hatman could have been more- subtle version of that but my version, this one, was hard, this one, I came down to a top three okay I do think jim carrey's incredible as ebony's or scrooge.
Speaker 1:I think he's like my. It's weird, I like. I get why people love alistair sims. I get why people like the original. Uh, was owens Owens? Yeah, owen from the 38 version. I get why they like these traditional versions of it, but to me I think Jim Carrey actually nailed the most traditional version of Ebenezer Scrooge.
Speaker 1:Jim Carrey's acting range just as a voice actor and a motion capture actor in that movie is so underrated it's not even funny and he does nail his comedic moments, but with subtlety. He's not like Mr Big, he's not Ace Ventura here, yeah, it's just he nails it and he does justice to the story, but in those moments where he's like with Fred and it has to be real he's good, you know. And so. But it came down to besides him, it's literally between Scrooge McDuck, who literally gets his name from the character, like Scrooge McDuck's name is still Scrooge McDuck.
Speaker 2:Right In DuckTales and everything else. It takes his name from the character Because I thought he was a comic book character before all of this.
Speaker 1:I don't know if he was or not. I don't know if he was created for this or what, but either way, that's where his name comes from. Right Is from Ebenezer Scrooge. Very good job, and like it's one of the more satisfying endings when he's at bob cratchit's house, you know, and all that stuff, but I think he's awesome.
Speaker 2:Um so he created in 1947 for the walt disney company by carl uh barks, but he is named after ebenezer scrooge. Yes, so all that's true. Yeah, so it just made sense when they were like we're gonna do the christmas carol yeah, well, they just made him a miser character like he just hoardsards wealth yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it just. I think it's an incredible interpretation of it, but I let me ask you this before I give you an answer who has the most satisfying ending in all the versions? Which ending is the best?
Speaker 2:I think it's for me. That's why Murray and Kane come up, Because Kane's is very much the musical Everyone's together, we're happy. It's visually just great and Murray is literally having a breakdown.
Speaker 1:For me, scrooge is the best ending of any version of the Christmas Carol Cause. It's it I. It honestly looks like they just rolled tape and let Bill Murray go nuts.
Speaker 2:It's a cynical man trying to figure out what Christmas spirit is as he's feeling it.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think it's the best ending. Yeah, I really do. And then it weirdly breaks out into a song, but like the kid coming up to him tagging it's the biggest payoff of the God bless us everybody. It's him running around, it's him being extra Bill Murray-ish and I think Bill Murray is my favorite Scrooge.
Speaker 2:That's fair. I mean, it's a movie that's really weird and like I don't think people think about it initially like as a proper, because you know it goes off the script so many times but I think because it's will it. Not only is it willing to go off the script, but it does it with intention. And like all the different, the ghosts are pretty much different, except the third one. The characters are placed in different roles.
Speaker 1:For a modern setting, I'm probably wrong, but to my take. But as off the top of my head it's the most modern take. I don't know that anyone's done a more modern version past the 80s.
Speaker 2:Not one that's. I don't know if there's a 90s version or two, I'm talking about that. Set place in the 90s, that set place in the 2000s, that set place in modern times. I don't think that there's been one that's been successful. Like there's probably been TV versions I'm sure place in its present day that's why I bring up uh spirited, because it's it's kind of christmas carol, but it's.
Speaker 2:It's a different, whole different it's like it's a world in which the christmas carol happened and so like you're kind of, ryan reynolds is being visited by will ferrell's like spirit, angel, ghost character who is part of.
Speaker 1:Like it's his job, it's like I have to it's it's the wonderful life thing of like I gotta earn my wings, kind of thing. So I'm trying to get you to.
Speaker 2:They're just hawking from a different kind of different things, kind of kind of so, but it was, it was better than than perceived.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay, all right, but yeah, for me it's just bill murray and I think it's just because I think it's the best ending. It's a little weird, it's a little off the cuff. There are things I want to cut out of it, but like it's just, it goes on forever, but head Well, it's after his stint in Paris and it's his big comeback and he got real butt hurt about not being taken serious with Razor's Edge and all those movies and it's a.
Speaker 2:Richard Donner movie too, the Superman director. There was a lot riding it when it came out, for sure. But yeah, I totally agree, I get it.
Speaker 1:That's why he was my number two or one b, really yeah well, I think that's it, man, yeah that was almost two hours of a christmas carol don't worry I'll.
Speaker 2:I'll try to cut it up short to down.
Speaker 1:I don't even feel bad if you don't because it's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's just a ton of information just 200 years, almost exactly, of information easy that thing's.
Speaker 1:We might be alive to see 200. I mean you will, for sure you'll be alive 20 more years, cory, come on yeah, I never thought I'd live to see 40, though, so I still think I'm on borrowed time. I think I got like 11 months left I and so I'm hit by a bus or something I hope not, I mean yeah it'd be nice if I didn't, but you know, I just feel like I'm gonna die soon please don't say that.
Speaker 1:So, uh, this could be my last episode. Everybody, um, but uh, but no like it is wild to think that, like in 20 years, this thing's not 200 years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which means we'll get a version.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, 100%. If they don't make a movie version, the local theater will do it. They'll be like we got to do that.
Speaker 1:Well, anybody can do it. It's public domain. You can't own this. That's right we could do. I would love to do it, love to do it, but I got a deadline, so I gotta really live it up right now. Um, and so, yeah, that's a Christmas carol. We hope you enjoyed listening to this that's right.
Speaker 2:Be sure to subscribe.
Speaker 1:Follow us on at Quan Recast that all the favorite version of this um and tell us if there's a version we're not thinking of yeah, I feel like we named at least once every version that we know of that exists yes, we tried but um, I mean, we didn't even tackle like tv episodes that do this right, I mean, it's a whole other nightmare, so nuts how many? How much this has been redone? But, um, we, uh, if anything, prove to you that we're fans of the non-traditional that's true, carol's true um, but yeah, no, uh, thanks for listening and say god bless us everyone, nick god bless us everyone nick.